United Airlines President: Leaving New York’s JFK ‘Was the Wrong Decision’ {2017}
#16
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I still think this was, in the scheme of things, a pretty minor consideration. UA wasn't co-located with any reasonable connecting partners at JFK and didn't even codeshare with all of the Star carriers there. If anything, *A connections are easier at EWR given the behind-security transfers available to LH/OS/SK/LX/TP/AI/ET.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 21, 2017 at 11:58 am Reason: repaired quote
#17
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In my estimation, it's the inbound NYC traffic which looks at EWR as substantially less convenient than JFK to Manhattan. That's why Kirby's comments make sense to me. Previous management, coming from the Continental side, thought about the market from the position as an incumbent carrier in the NYC market and a distant also-ran on the West Coast.
Last edited by EWR764; Apr 21, 2017 at 8:09 am
#18
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Thanks for sharing the article, very interesting. It is one more example of why I think FT is so interesting. The airline business is just a fascinatingly complex model. Loyalty programs matter because of all the knock-on effects of capturing near-100% of a person's spend. The importance of JFK to LAX<>LHR premium fares makes total sense but is something that seems really difficult to model/optimize. Again, thanks for posting.
#19
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#20
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I lived in Manhattan for 10 years, work there, have friends who live/work there, running the gamut from airline agnostic to hardcore brand loyalists. For locals who know how to get around, there really does not seem to be a dramatic preference of one versus the other when it comes to EWR and JFK. I think the perception is both are mildly inconvenient. LGA is a different story, historically the local Manhattan market has a strong preference for LGA over both EWR/JFK, but the construction there is a major, albeit temporary, headache.
In my estimation, it's the inbound NYC traffic which looks at EWR as substantially less convenient than JFK to Manhattan. That's why Kirby's comments make sense to me.
In my estimation, it's the inbound NYC traffic which looks at EWR as substantially less convenient than JFK to Manhattan. That's why Kirby's comments make sense to me.
When you commute to Manhattan often enough, the last thing you wanna do is to wait in the traffic going through the toll roads/highways.
Last edited by PaulInTheSky; Apr 21, 2017 at 8:11 am
#21
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...Definitely I'd love to go to LGA all the time, but for some West Coasters, you'd think it's still going to save time to get to JFK when non-stops are everywhere vs connections to LGA. The longest flights to LGA are probably SLC/DEN/PHX-LGA, but anything farther would definitely require a connection to get t LGA.....
#22
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Confirmation what many of us have been saying . . . high J loads on EWR-LAX/SFO doesn't mean dumping JFK was the right move.
#23
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Kirby makes strange statements. It was "wrong" to leave, but it's also "wrong" to return. Okaaaay. That means JFK was a marginal operation at best, and one then can't easily say it was "wrong". Also UA doesn't have the aircraft to operate PS at both JFK and EWR at a reasonable frequency. Have to take this with a grain of salt since his former airline doubled down on premium service from JFK and is a fraction of the size of UA's PS at EWR.
#24
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Yes, to SLC or PHX on sometimes weekends, definitely saw SLC/PHX non-stops before, but it looks like it's also gone, just DEN now.
Last edited by PaulInTheSky; Apr 21, 2017 at 8:31 am
#25
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Kirby makes strange statements. It was "wrong" to leave, but it's also "wrong" to return. Okaaaay. That means JFK was a marginal operation at best, and one then can't easily say it was "wrong". Also UA doesn't have the aircraft to operate PS at both JFK and EWR at a reasonable frequency. Have to take this with a grain of salt since his former airline doubled down on premium service from JFK and is a fraction of the size of UA's PS at EWR.
#26
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It's very insightful, but still leaves me scratching my head. I got to New York a lot, and it's way easier to get into the city from EWR than JFK. JFK is 1:10 on the train. EWR is like 40 mins on the NJ Transit.
The article sites actors - do they care which airport? (I honestly don't know). It talks about flying F...well, they could have kept 3 cabin on the EWR routes, and could still bring it back. But that point seemed more to be about aircraft config than airport.
I'm genuinely curious if people going to Manhattan really prefer JFK over EWR. I certainly don't, but maybe I'm an anomaly? I prefer LGA to JFK, it's 30 mins into the city!
The article sites actors - do they care which airport? (I honestly don't know). It talks about flying F...well, they could have kept 3 cabin on the EWR routes, and could still bring it back. But that point seemed more to be about aircraft config than airport.
I'm genuinely curious if people going to Manhattan really prefer JFK over EWR. I certainly don't, but maybe I'm an anomaly? I prefer LGA to JFK, it's 30 mins into the city!
Part of the difficulty with EWR, as others have mentioned, is if you are not going to take public transit. EWR originating cabs to the city aren't cheap with the trans-Hudson tolls. I live in Brooklyn, and I avoid EWR like the plague. A cab or car service easily runs $80-100, plus the concerns of tunnel traffic make it a risky option. Also, the train connections aren't particularly convenient unless you're going to Penn Station or willing to hop on the PATH to downtown. For me to get to Brooklyn by train from EWR is: Airtrain to NJ Transit to Midtown and a long subway ride to BK or Airtrain to NJ Transit to PATH to shorter subway ride. JFK to Brooklyn is a $35 car service.
#27
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Location of Manhattan - Huge difference.
To be fair, it also depends on your hotel and your final location in Manhattan. If you are in West Manhattan with only minutes after getting off the Jersey-NYC bridges, then EWR can end up being even faster. Everywhere else in Manhattan it would be either JFK/LGA.
#28
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Here's why we take it with more than a grain of salt:
-he has been in the business of dissing the United he didn't participate in
-his belief about leaving JFK isn't supported well by the evidence and logic tests
I don't care who makes the statement and what it is. I look at the evidence. Executives are paid to lie if they have to.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 21, 2017 at 12:01 pm Reason: Discuss the issues, not the poster
#30
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Kirby makes strange statements. It was "wrong" to leave, but it's also "wrong" to return. Okaaaay. That means JFK was a marginal operation at best, and one then can't easily say it was "wrong". Also UA doesn't have the aircraft to operate PS at both JFK and EWR at a reasonable frequency. Have to take this with a grain of salt since his former airline doubled down on premium service from JFK and is a fraction of the size of UA's PS at EWR.
Last edited by smxflyer; Apr 21, 2017 at 8:39 am