United Crew Refused to Allow Daughter of 94 Year Old Grandma to Assist Her Mother
Apr 18, 2017, 1:05 pm
#196
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"United Crew Refused to Allow Daughter of 94 Year Old Grandma to Assist Her Mother ..."
vs.
"United Crew Refused to allow Y class passenger in J class cabin citing cabin rules"
vs.
"United Crew Refused to allow Y class passenger in J class cabin citing cabin rules"
Apr 18, 2017, 1:42 pm
#197
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It has not worked out very well for them. 
Apr 18, 2017, 1:43 pm
#198
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not sure why these things happen to other people. I flew kids down to Sydney in coach while wife and i were in first class (way back last year when they there was such a thing as first class on these planes 
) Kids would come up to see us on occasion (kids were 15 and 17) and we would go back and check on them whenever we felt like it. Never got the sense this was against the rules, i know the FAs saw them. none of the other passengers seemed to mind. Granted it was for very short time and not during a time that it would likely bother anyone, but just surprised anyone has these issues
) Kids would come up to see us on occasion (kids were 15 and 17) and we would go back and check on them whenever we felt like it. Never got the sense this was against the rules, i know the FAs saw them. none of the other passengers seemed to mind. Granted it was for very short time and not during a time that it would likely bother anyone, but just surprised anyone has these issues
Apr 18, 2017, 2:14 pm
#199
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not sure why these things happen to other people. I flew kids down to Sydney in coach while wife and i were in first class (way back last year when they there was such a thing as first class on these planes ) Kids would come up to see us on occasion (kids were 15 and 17) and we would go back and check on them whenever we felt like it. Never got the sense this was against the rules, i know the FAs saw them. none of the other passengers seemed to mind. Granted it was for very short time and not during a time that it would likely bother anyone, but just surprised anyone has these issues
) Kids would come up to see us on occasion (kids were 15 and 17) and we would go back and check on them whenever we felt like it. Never got the sense this was against the rules, i know the FAs saw them. none of the other passengers seemed to mind. Granted it was for very short time and not during a time that it would likely bother anyone, but just surprised anyone has these issuesIt's for your safety. Think of the children.
</Sarcasm>
Apr 18, 2017, 2:53 pm
#201
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not sure why these things happen to other people. I flew kids down to Sydney in coach while wife and i were in first class (way back last year when they there was such a thing as first class on these planes ) Kids would come up to see us on occasion (kids were 15 and 17) and we would go back and check on them whenever we felt like it. Never got the sense this was against the rules, i know the FAs saw them. none of the other passengers seemed to mind. Granted it was for very short time and not during a time that it would likely bother anyone, but just surprised anyone has these issues
) Kids would come up to see us on occasion (kids were 15 and 17) and we would go back and check on them whenever we felt like it. Never got the sense this was against the rules, i know the FAs saw them. none of the other passengers seemed to mind. Granted it was for very short time and not during a time that it would likely bother anyone, but just surprised anyone has these issuesThe policy exists for a good reason, and I don't mind it's existence. I'm in favor. That being said, there absolutely should be some of Oscar's "common sense" applied.
Apr 18, 2017, 3:00 pm
#202
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Apr 18, 2017, 3:45 pm
#203
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there is a point hiding in here that was probably unintentional, but here goes: an emergency is another great reason an assistant should be sitting as close to this passenger as possible.
So say say there's an emergency on board, and they need to evacuate. Who exactly is going to be helping the 94-year-old do this - to get out of her seat, get to and out the door/down the slide. Thankfully, I've never been in an emergency like this, but something tells me that if it occurs, the FAs are busy with other duties to help everyone get off that aircraft, and don't have the time to help this women personally. After all, they are responsible for each of the 250 people on board, not just 1. In fact, should an FA stop going through their required duties to help her only for more than a few seconds, I could see this as being the focus of a lawsuit brought on by other affected pax.
In another potential example, what happens if the oxygen masks need to be put on? Again, who is going to help her? Isn't that something you would want to do personally if you were her family? But how can you do that from a different cabin? Again, while the FAs are performing emergency duties, how are they specifically supposed to focus on just 1 of 200+ pax.
I would never advocate anyone flying a 90+ year-old sitting by themselves for emergency reasons alone - I don't want to leave it up to someone else who don't know them to help in an emergency situation. My objection to the family sitting in a different cabin has nothing to do with the potential for disturbance, but on other factors.
And by the way, since other people have mentioned it, I understand the expense of premium cabin tickets and that most people can't afford them. Heck, I can't, and so I don't buy them. So I sympathize with the $ issue, but again, this women clearly needed more than the average amount of help, almost women her age probably would, in fact, most at that age are well beyond their flying days. I would never fly a family member in their 90s alone - on UA or any other carrier - I'd find a way to get two tickets in the same cabin.
So say say there's an emergency on board, and they need to evacuate. Who exactly is going to be helping the 94-year-old do this - to get out of her seat, get to and out the door/down the slide. Thankfully, I've never been in an emergency like this, but something tells me that if it occurs, the FAs are busy with other duties to help everyone get off that aircraft, and don't have the time to help this women personally. After all, they are responsible for each of the 250 people on board, not just 1. In fact, should an FA stop going through their required duties to help her only for more than a few seconds, I could see this as being the focus of a lawsuit brought on by other affected pax.
In another potential example, what happens if the oxygen masks need to be put on? Again, who is going to help her? Isn't that something you would want to do personally if you were her family? But how can you do that from a different cabin? Again, while the FAs are performing emergency duties, how are they specifically supposed to focus on just 1 of 200+ pax.
I would never advocate anyone flying a 90+ year-old sitting by themselves for emergency reasons alone - I don't want to leave it up to someone else who don't know them to help in an emergency situation. My objection to the family sitting in a different cabin has nothing to do with the potential for disturbance, but on other factors.
And by the way, since other people have mentioned it, I understand the expense of premium cabin tickets and that most people can't afford them. Heck, I can't, and so I don't buy them. So I sympathize with the $ issue, but again, this women clearly needed more than the average amount of help, almost women her age probably would, in fact, most at that age are well beyond their flying days. I would never fly a family member in their 90s alone - on UA or any other carrier - I'd find a way to get two tickets in the same cabin.
In the event of a crash-landing, economy passengers must exit the aircraft using the exit doors in the economy section only. You are not allowed to go into the business class cabin on your way out to help grandma get out of her seat and towards the door and down the slide. She can just sit there and burn up. What if the exit doors in the back are blocked? The economy passengers also can just sit there and burn up. They deserve it! Of course the UA flight attendants in economy are free to go into the business class cabin to escape. The employees are the only ones who matter.
Apr 18, 2017, 3:58 pm
#204
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Apr 18, 2017, 4:28 pm
#205
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,
The grandmother DID move to economy. She ended up with swollen legs, a stiff neck, and sought medical attention 2-3 days after the flight, at which point her doctor prescribed Valium and stronger pain medication to help her sleep. She apparently took at least a few days if not longer to recover from the ordeal that the UA FAs put her through.
The grandmother DID move to economy. She ended up with swollen legs, a stiff neck, and sought medical attention 2-3 days after the flight, at which point her doctor prescribed Valium and stronger pain medication to help her sleep. She apparently took at least a few days if not longer to recover from the ordeal that the UA FAs put her through.
If this "ordeal" caused mental stress and anguish perhaps she didn't need to fly in the first place.
He could fly LH or LX F but there's a reason my 88 yo grandpa is never seeing his hometown in Switzerland again.
Apr 18, 2017, 4:46 pm
#206
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In the event of a crash-landing, economy passengers must exit the aircraft using the exit doors in the economy section only. You are not allowed to go into the business class cabin on your way out to help grandma get out of her seat and towards the door and down the slide. She can just sit there and burn up. What if the exit doors in the back are blocked? The economy passengers also can just sit there and burn up. They deserve it!
With that said, I simply can't accept the justification made earlier in the thread that she shouldn't have been seated in J alone to begin with as she may not have been able to get out of the aircraft in the slim chance of an accident... reason being, last time I checked, most crash landings that do have survivors also have many injured on various levels... who were originally "fit" enough but would then may need help escaping due to injuries from the accident. So by that line of thought, should the injured just be left onboard to fend for themselves because it's not fair to expect others to help? The reality is there's no law that dictates other passengers would need to help, but I do hope humanity would kick in.Anyway, getting back to the specific situation - the question that comes up for me is this: if there were other passengers who were "so disturbed" by what happened that they were offering their contact info, I wonder if any of them (assuming some of them were J passengers) actually tried to simply say "don't worry, I'm seated next to your grandmother... if she needs a little help opening a container of butter or walking up the aisle, I'm all of 2 feet away from her, have her just ask and I'll be happy to help." Who knows, maybe I'm being naive but if I were sitting there watching this happen - before this turned into such an overreaction and the poor woman got bounced back to Y, I would have just offered a little friendly help.
Apr 18, 2017, 4:55 pm
#207
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Apr 18, 2017, 5:25 pm
#208
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Lots of people flying l/h Y suffer the same symptoms. But when you want media attention for your story it probably does help to find a doctor to help you juice up the "fall out" from flying in coach on a commercial airliner.
If this "ordeal" caused mental stress and anguish perhaps she didn't need to fly in the first place.
He could fly LH or LX F but there's a reason my 88 yo grandpa is never seeing his hometown in Switzerland again.
If this "ordeal" caused mental stress and anguish perhaps she didn't need to fly in the first place.
He could fly LH or LX F but there's a reason my 88 yo grandpa is never seeing his hometown in Switzerland again.
Apr 18, 2017, 9:15 pm
#209
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For the record, if I was seated next to this 94-year-old and there was an emergency, and I was at all capable of helping her get off the plane or just put on a mask, I'd help. The safety videos tell you to secure your mask before helping others, and while in the safety video they use a small child as an example of someone who may need help. it really could be anyone, including a 94 year old grandma. The instructions do NOT say to secure your mask, help your friends and relatives, and let strangers pass out from the lack of oxygen. And if the plane does go down and there is an evacuation order, and there are people near me who can't get out under their own power, I'm simply going to pick them up and carry them out if I am physically capable of doing so. If not, I'd ask other pax to help me carry them out.
So yeah, there are nice people for sure who would. But even I've seen a ton of jerks - both out in the public domain in general and while flying - UA and other carriers. So no, I wouldn't just trust that a random person would help. Family - yes, obviously they would.
Wow, I had no idea that the rule about economy class passengers staying out of the business class cabin is a rock-solid wall.
In the event of a crash-landing, economy passengers must exit the aircraft using the exit doors in the economy section only. You are not allowed to go into the business class cabin on your way out to help grandma get out of her seat and towards the door and down the slide. She can just sit there and burn up. What if the exit doors in the back are blocked? The economy passengers also can just sit there and burn up. They deserve it! Of course the UA flight attendants in economy are free to go into the business class cabin to escape. The employees are the only ones who matter.
In the event of a crash-landing, economy passengers must exit the aircraft using the exit doors in the economy section only. You are not allowed to go into the business class cabin on your way out to help grandma get out of her seat and towards the door and down the slide. She can just sit there and burn up. What if the exit doors in the back are blocked? The economy passengers also can just sit there and burn up. They deserve it! Of course the UA flight attendants in economy are free to go into the business class cabin to escape. The employees are the only ones who matter.
We, of course, don't know where the assigned seats of the family members were vs. the 94-year-old, but if there's an aircraft evacuation happening, it's more likely than not that a passenger in economy trying to run up several rows, very likely against a crowd of people heading for the nearest emergency exit at some point, is endangering not only themselves, but other passengers and crew. An FA may not even let this happen (not to mention, this is likely taking their attention away from instructing other folks, etc., and in a worst case, the added time could lead to more severe injuries or additional deaths. In an emergency, one is trying to get off the aircraft as quick as possible. Obviously, you go to the nearest exit, and cabin doesn't matter.
Apr 18, 2017, 9:22 pm
#210
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1) the probability of this actually mattering is incredibly tiny -- odds are much greater that the old woman chokes to death on the bread, or just croaks of natural causes
2) If both of them were in business, they would both be in the way of everyone else trying to get out, so even in the case of 1), what difference does it make?
Using a standard of safety with no logical limits, airlines should make all the passengers prove they're able to evacuate without getting in the way or needing help. 3 push-ups and lift this 15 pound weight 3 times in 30 seconds, or go back home.
2) If both of them were in business, they would both be in the way of everyone else trying to get out, so even in the case of 1), what difference does it make?
Using a standard of safety with no logical limits, airlines should make all the passengers prove they're able to evacuate without getting in the way or needing help. 3 push-ups and lift this 15 pound weight 3 times in 30 seconds, or go back home.
