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-   -   New process / algorithm for determining if some bag gate checking will be needed (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1836767-new-process-algorithm-determining-if-some-bag-gate-checking-will-needed.html)

1P Apr 17, 2017 12:16 pm


Originally Posted by Baze (Post 28180255)
And if you do have 2 items, put 1 under the seat in front of you, not both in the overhead, but FA's don't enforce that, even though they just made an announcement to that effect.

Not possible to do that if you are in a bulkhead row. The problem is compounded if you are in the bulkhead row of F on a 737, where some of the overhead space is already taken by safety equipment, etc.

But the real problem is aircraft design. Whoever thought up overhead bins deserves to be drummed out of the brownies. The answer is to get rid of overhead bins and raise the floor. Install underfloor storage in the floor space under every seat (access via a trap door): you'd be able to fit much more in a pit than you can in an overhead. You'd need to combine that with boarding window seats first, then middles, then aisles, as UA used to do at one stage. If you're late to your seat, you may not be able to access underfloor storage: an incentive to arriving at the gate on time and/or constructing itineraries that have much longer minimum connection times than the legal minimum, as all savvy travelers do anyway.

Kevin AA Apr 17, 2017 12:56 pm


Originally Posted by 1P (Post 28191498)
Not possible to do that if you are in a bulkhead row. The problem is compounded if you are in the bulkhead row of F on a 737, where some of the overhead space is already taken by safety equipment, etc.

But the real problem is aircraft design. Whoever thought up overhead bins deserves to be drummed out of the brownies. The answer is to get rid of overhead bins and raise the floor. Install underfloor storage in the floor space under every seat (access via a trap door): you'd be able to fit much more in a pit than you can in an overhead. You'd need to combine that with boarding window seats first, then middles, then aisles, as UA used to do at one stage. If you're late to your seat, you may not be able to access underfloor storage: an incentive to arriving at the gate on time and/or constructing itineraries that have much longer minimum connection times than the legal minimum, as all savvy travelers do anyway.

Aside from the massive cost of reconstructing every plane, you would have to institute a maximum height for people sitting in the window seat. The fuselage is round and the floor is placed such that people's head/chest are more-or-less in the center such that the space above your head is enough for you to fit in it. Or even better (and more expensive), trash every plane and produce a new design just like that but taller, like the Beechcraft 1900D (a taller version of the 1900C, same width).


Originally Posted by STS-134 (Post 28180881)
If airlines just got rid of the darn baggage fees this would never be a problem. Why is it that every time I fly an airline within Asia, there's always plenty of overhead bin space even after everyone has boarded? Oh right, it's because not everyone tries to haul everything they own in a huge carryon in the cabin.

Southwest charges nothing for bags yet people do exactly the same thing. It's an American phenomenon. It is ridiculous what people will try to bring on board. If you let people bring 5 suitcases on board, they'll do it.


Originally Posted by LarryJ (Post 28181945)
Cheking bags would make it worse.

A carry-on bag stowed in the cabin is included in the average passenger weight. If the bag is checked, or gate-checked on an RJ, the bag suddenly has a weight of its own in addition to the passenger weight. So, checking more bags makes the airplane heavier (on paper).

I like seeing your posts. It's nice to get facts every now and then. :)

Just to expand on this, if I'm not mistaken, average passenger weight includes a carry-on bag. Is it 30 pounds? Anyway, if the overhead bins fill up halfway through, then clearly the average carry-on weighs more than that, so the "weight on paper" is accurate.

prometa Apr 17, 2017 1:43 pm


Originally Posted by 1P (Post 28191498)
Not possible to do that if you are in a bulkhead row. The problem is compounded if you are in the bulkhead row of F on a 737, where some of the overhead space is already taken by safety equipment, etc.

But the real problem is aircraft design. Whoever thought up overhead bins deserves to be drummed out of the brownies. The answer is to get rid of overhead bins and raise the floor. Install underfloor storage in the floor space under every seat (access via a trap door): you'd be able to fit much more in a pit than you can in an overhead. You'd need to combine that with boarding window seats first, then middles, then aisles, as UA used to do at one stage. If you're late to your seat, you may not be able to access underfloor storage: an incentive to arriving at the gate on time and/or constructing itineraries that have much longer minimum connection times than the legal minimum, as all savvy travelers do anyway.

A trap door large enough to fit a standard sized carry-on wouldn't fit between the rows of E-.

jsloan Apr 17, 2017 2:30 pm


Originally Posted by Kevin AA (Post 28191714)
Just to expand on this, if I'm not mistaken, average passenger weight includes a carry-on bag. Is it 30 pounds? Anyway, if the overhead bins fill up halfway through, then clearly the average carry-on weighs more than that, so the "weight on paper" is accurate.

This makes no sense. Bins aren't filling up because they weigh more than the average. Not only does that conflate weight and volume, it ignores the primary reason that overhead space is at a premium on these planes -- slimline seating, and the extra 1-2 rows of E- space they've added (or the extra column of seats on the 777HD). The additional passengers that can be boarded in have the cabin baggage allowance figured into their on-paper weight despite the fact that there is no way their hand luggage will fit in the overhead.

Of course, this is usually more of an issue on smaller planes, where it's easier for the calculations to fall out of balance. I've been on multiple flights where they brought the green-tagged bags on board an RJ, then proceeded to confuse the heck out of passengers when the flight crew explained that it was for weight reasons. "The bags weigh the same no matter where they're stored!"

Kevin AA Apr 17, 2017 2:38 pm


Originally Posted by jsloan (Post 28192196)
This makes no sense. Bins aren't filling up because they weigh more than the average. Not only does that conflate weight and volume, it ignores the primary reason that overhead space is at a premium on these planes -- slimline seating, and the extra 1-2 rows of E- space they've added (or the extra column of seats on the 777HD). The additional passengers that can be boarded in have the cabin baggage allowance figured into their on-paper weight despite the fact that there is no way their hand luggage will fit in the overhead.

Of course, this is usually more of an issue on smaller planes, where it's easier for the calculations to fall out of balance. I've been on multiple flights where they brought the green-tagged bags on board an RJ, then proceeded to confuse the heck out of passengers when the flight crew explained that it was for weight reasons. "The bags weigh the same no matter where they're stored!"

good point, I had not thought of that

Loren Pechtel Apr 17, 2017 6:25 pm


Originally Posted by 1P (Post 28191498)
Not possible to do that if you are in a bulkhead row. The problem is compounded if you are in the bulkhead row of F on a 737, where some of the overhead space is already taken by safety equipment, etc.

But the real problem is aircraft design. Whoever thought up overhead bins deserves to be drummed out of the brownies. The answer is to get rid of overhead bins and raise the floor. Install underfloor storage in the floor space under every seat (access via a trap door): you'd be able to fit much more in a pit than you can in an overhead. You'd need to combine that with boarding window seats first, then middles, then aisles, as UA used to do at one stage. If you're late to your seat, you may not be able to access underfloor storage: an incentive to arriving at the gate on time and/or constructing itineraries that have much longer minimum connection times than the legal minimum, as all savvy travelers do anyway.

No. The bins work because you need more space above your head when walking down the aisle than when sitting in your seat. Raise the floor and everyone is hitting their head walking to their seat.


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