Bonehead

Exactly. I don't think one should minimize, trivialize, or dismiss the fact that a passenger was seriously injured by being dragged out of his seat, through the aisle, and off a plane at the behest of United Airlines.

It has certainly affected me. I mean, this really happened to a paying customer. That's the reality here. To make matters worse, Mr. Munoz didn't think it was a particularly big deal until he realized that yes, it was a big deal.

notquiteaff

> Do you feel unsafe or as though your safety is vulnerable on a United flight? ...

No.

TheVJOng

Not any different than on other airlines.

lazard

No, because I wouldn't be stupid enough to resist multiple orders from the GA and the authorities.

Superguy

I wouldn't expect to see this happen on a Japanese airline, but for entirely different reasons. I think this is more cultural than anything else. Asian cultures are less about the individual and more about the group. They follow "the rules", respect each other (especially their elders), and generally act in a more calm and peaceful manner than their western counterparts.

Just look at the aftermath of Fukushima a few years back. There was no rioting, pillaging, rape, etc to speak of. People behaved themselves, worked together and looked out for each other. I was quite impressed with how the people handled themselves in the face of disaster.

I shudder to think at what would have happened had the same thing happened in America. It'd be Katrina on crack. Every man for themselves, everyone else be damned. God help us all.

Hartmann

No.

JBord

And only the latter actually mattered. All UA did was call the authorities. Everything that took place after that point is the fault of the aviation police.

At some point it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. You obey the cops and sort it out on the back end, or you risk physical violence. I'm fairly certain the officers will be punished, fired, and/or sued for their inappropriate actions. But realize that this could have happened anywhere in the world, with any police officers, for any number of reasons. It just so happened that in this instance the officers were on a United plane.

Ber2dca

I oddly enough don't even feel vulnerable or unsafe around cops even though everyone on Twitter and half the world media have told me that they're a greater menace than ISIS.

MrAndy1369

Honestly, so far, no. I mean, UA handled this event awfully – no argument about it – but the reason this is making big news is because it's so extraordinarily rare to happen in the first place. If people were dragged or hurt right and left, everyday, then it would eventually not make the news, as it would become commonplace and accepted.

I'm sure similar events happened on DL, AA, WN, B6, and other airlines. UA just got unlucky because of social media, perceived racism on their end (whether or not that was their intent), and because of how the GA handled the situation initially by being stingy and unreasonable. Frankly, it was a perfect storm of events which happened to make the news.

Munoz's initial response was disheartening as well, but he was probably working off (mis)information his employees gave him, and backtracked very quickly. The damage was already done, and having fine-focus news coverage already on UA didn't help their case. It's an unfortunate incident all around, honestly.

But, to sum it up, do I feel inherently unsafe on UA? No. If events like this repeat, then I could change my position, but as of now, no. Also, UA started the incident (by having the crew/GA call the cops), but it's really on the cops by the way they reacted. If an UA employee physically dragged Dao out, that'd be 100% on UA. Still, UA certainly could've done better. That's my take.

Silver Fox

About as unsafe as I felt before. But as another poster said, why is this, and indeed some of the other threads raising nonsensical questions over what will remain an isolated incident in the annals of flying history tolerated. Some people really need to get out more.

DisneyObsessed

I disagree that everything that took place after the aviation police were called was the fault of the aviation police. The kindly Dr bears some responsibility. As you mention later in your post, rational behavior would include compliance with authority and hash it out later.


I am not all that sure that the officers will or should be, fired or otherwise disciplined for their actions. I say this because we do not have all of the videos yet (and most likely, never will) and the videos we have do not show enough to understand exactly what was going on and what forced was used and what force was called for.


We know that he was asked to deplane and then the police were called for what essentially was, at that point, a trespasser.


I was a police officer for many years and, although I have never had to take law enforcement action on a bus, train or plane, I can tell you that when someone resists being taken out of a car, someone is likely to get hurt. Not with malice but with necessity. There are so many things for a perpetrator to grab on to and such a small confined space in which to work that there is usually injury. And when you are in the fight, you just hope it is not you that is injured.


We hear that the officers were placed on administrative leave. That means nothing at this point other than that the department is taking this seriously and investigating. The department can't have the liability of having the officers on the beat IN CASE it is determined that there was unnecessary use of force.

TheVJOng

I expected this from the general public, but I'm surprised there are discussions like this on a site like FT given the demographics.

notquiteaff

I agree that the thread is... bizarre. But is "bizarre" a violation of the T&C of FT? If not, no reason to disallow this thread. We can just all ignore it and it will quickly disappear in the archives.

mduell

No more than any other situation where cops are around.

The proximate cause of the pax's injuries was contempt of cop, not UA staff or being on a UA airplane.

Andy Big Bear

It doesn't matter, because though the police here have qualified immunity, the UA staff does not, so they are still liable since the police were operating under the color of the airline staff's authority.