So how does UA win back the flying public? (Beyond the obvious)
Apr 16, 2017, 10:30 pm
#316
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
Posts: 10,764
First of all, the United brand has been toxic for a long time - way before leggings-gate and this most recent incident. Now it is downright radioactive. I think it's time to re-brand; perhaps consider bringing back Continental. Given all of the ill will against this brand, I think it will be impossible to reverse the damage.
I think that apologizing profusely for the treatment of the ORD passenger and acknowledging the tone deafness of Oscar's initial response is a given. But United also has to own up to being 110% wrong, address/eliminate this practice of overbooking flights and they need to make their amends to this passenger in a very public, transparent way. I also have to add, as a person of color, that United must acknowledge the questionable optics of singling out the Asian man on the flight, knocking him around like garbage and then dragging him down the aisle like a dead animal; as if Asians were subhumans who were not deserving of decent treatment. This would have NEVER EVER EVER EVER happened to a white woman, let alone a white man. The UA employee who "randomly" chose this passenger obviously (or subconsciously) chose a meek little Asian person who they thought would be least likely to protest or cause a stir. And we all know that booting off a black person would have touched off a sh**storm in the media. Anyway, that calculation backfired. Big time! My initial visceral reaction about the role of race in this incident has been largely validated by others posting on social media. This is really, really bad for UA.
Finally, UA, has to learn a thing or two from the airlines with the loyalist adherents. Southwest, for example. Their focus has to be on the customer and not the blind ambition to generate revenue via nickel-and-dime fees and exploiting every opportunity to gouge the customer. They can also lower mileage redemption rates and increase mileage awards (back to where they were a few years ago, for starters). By acknowledging their wrongdoing and demonstrating to the public how it has learned from its grave mistakes and how it intends to develop innovative, customer-centric services for its passengers, they can save themselves. The continued denial of wrongdoing is not a winning strategy.
I think that apologizing profusely for the treatment of the ORD passenger and acknowledging the tone deafness of Oscar's initial response is a given. But United also has to own up to being 110% wrong, address/eliminate this practice of overbooking flights and they need to make their amends to this passenger in a very public, transparent way. I also have to add, as a person of color, that United must acknowledge the questionable optics of singling out the Asian man on the flight, knocking him around like garbage and then dragging him down the aisle like a dead animal; as if Asians were subhumans who were not deserving of decent treatment. This would have NEVER EVER EVER EVER happened to a white woman, let alone a white man. The UA employee who "randomly" chose this passenger obviously (or subconsciously) chose a meek little Asian person who they thought would be least likely to protest or cause a stir. And we all know that booting off a black person would have touched off a sh**storm in the media. Anyway, that calculation backfired. Big time! My initial visceral reaction about the role of race in this incident has been largely validated by others posting on social media. This is really, really bad for UA.
Finally, UA, has to learn a thing or two from the airlines with the loyalist adherents. Southwest, for example. Their focus has to be on the customer and not the blind ambition to generate revenue via nickel-and-dime fees and exploiting every opportunity to gouge the customer. They can also lower mileage redemption rates and increase mileage awards (back to where they were a few years ago, for starters). By acknowledging their wrongdoing and demonstrating to the public how it has learned from its grave mistakes and how it intends to develop innovative, customer-centric services for its passengers, they can save themselves. The continued denial of wrongdoing is not a winning strategy.
Apr 16, 2017, 10:49 pm
#317
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA - Silver, Hertz-5 star
Posts: 217
Real clowns and a half. You wonder why people are leaving these airlines and switching to the middle eastern and asian airliners in droves.
But it's a pity if you have to deal with them/fly with them due to company rules in the States.
The sad part is, the agent will do it to someone else tommorrow and he`/she will just carry on with that screwed up attitude.
But it's a pity if you have to deal with them/fly with them due to company rules in the States.
The sad part is, the agent will do it to someone else tommorrow and he`/she will just carry on with that screwed up attitude.
Apr 17, 2017, 12:06 am
#318
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Seoul
Programs: None anymore
Posts: 983
I think that United could do a couple of things.... You really need to entice passengers and show them that they matter. Reward loyalty and show empathy. If I was in a decision making position I would do the following:
1. Match AA with 8 GPU's.
2. To use a GPU you still need to buy W or above, however once you purchase it's confirmed at booking. No need to waitlist, and you get guaranteed use of your instrument. I firmly believe this would entice frequent fliers to consider United again.
3. Increase Voluntary denied boarding amount and mimic Delta with their "always voluntary" motto. Everyone has a "price."
4. Get rid of this "basic economy" crap. It's just a way to tack on extra fees. It makes the airline look slimy.
5. First checked bag free. I'm sure the airline makes a ton of money from this, but it would free up so much overhead bin space. I'm an Asia-primary traveler and I never have problems with overhead bin space.
1. Match AA with 8 GPU's.
2. To use a GPU you still need to buy W or above, however once you purchase it's confirmed at booking. No need to waitlist, and you get guaranteed use of your instrument. I firmly believe this would entice frequent fliers to consider United again.
3. Increase Voluntary denied boarding amount and mimic Delta with their "always voluntary" motto. Everyone has a "price."
4. Get rid of this "basic economy" crap. It's just a way to tack on extra fees. It makes the airline look slimy.
5. First checked bag free. I'm sure the airline makes a ton of money from this, but it would free up so much overhead bin space. I'm an Asia-primary traveler and I never have problems with overhead bin space.
Apr 17, 2017, 12:32 am
#319
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast
Programs: AA CONCIERGE KEY & 1MM, HILTON DIAMOND
Posts: 11,970
I think that United could do a couple of things.... You really need to entice passengers and show them that they matter. Reward loyalty and show empathy. If I was in a decision making position I would do the following:
1. Match AA with 8 GPU's.
2. To use a GPU you still need to buy W or above, however once you purchase it's confirmed at booking. No need to waitlist, and you get guaranteed use of your instrument. I firmly believe this would entice frequent fliers to consider United again.
3. Increase Voluntary denied boarding amount and mimic Delta with their "always voluntary" motto. Everyone has a "price."
4. Get rid of this "basic economy" crap. It's just a way to tack on extra fees. It makes the airline look slimy.
5. First checked bag free. I'm sure the airline makes a ton of money from this, but it would free up so much overhead bin space. I'm an Asia-primary traveler and I never have problems with overhead bin space.
1. Match AA with 8 GPU's.
2. To use a GPU you still need to buy W or above, however once you purchase it's confirmed at booking. No need to waitlist, and you get guaranteed use of your instrument. I firmly believe this would entice frequent fliers to consider United again.
3. Increase Voluntary denied boarding amount and mimic Delta with their "always voluntary" motto. Everyone has a "price."
4. Get rid of this "basic economy" crap. It's just a way to tack on extra fees. It makes the airline look slimy.
5. First checked bag free. I'm sure the airline makes a ton of money from this, but it would free up so much overhead bin space. I'm an Asia-primary traveler and I never have problems with overhead bin space.
Apr 17, 2017, 1:45 am
#320
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Seoul
Programs: None anymore
Posts: 983
Lol of the ideas I had only the first two had to do with elites, and both of them were about the same thing. Either way, it's about marketing and if you're able to have a marketable program, it's going to bring in more fliers who are going to try and go for your status.
Apr 17, 2017, 2:33 am
#321
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
I think that United could do a couple of things.... You really need to entice passengers and show them that they matter. Reward loyalty and show empathy. If I was in a decision making position I would do the following:
1. Match AA with 8 GPU's.
2. To use a GPU you still need to buy W or above, however once you purchase it's confirmed at booking. No need to waitlist, and you get guaranteed use of your instrument. I firmly believe this would entice frequent fliers to consider United again.
3. Increase Voluntary denied boarding amount and mimic Delta with their "always voluntary" motto. Everyone has a "price."
4. Get rid of this "basic economy" crap. It's just a way to tack on extra fees. It makes the airline look slimy.
5. First checked bag free. I'm sure the airline makes a ton of money from this, but it would free up so much overhead bin space. I'm an Asia-primary traveler and I never have problems with overhead bin space.
1. Match AA with 8 GPU's.
2. To use a GPU you still need to buy W or above, however once you purchase it's confirmed at booking. No need to waitlist, and you get guaranteed use of your instrument. I firmly believe this would entice frequent fliers to consider United again.
3. Increase Voluntary denied boarding amount and mimic Delta with their "always voluntary" motto. Everyone has a "price."
4. Get rid of this "basic economy" crap. It's just a way to tack on extra fees. It makes the airline look slimy.
5. First checked bag free. I'm sure the airline makes a ton of money from this, but it would free up so much overhead bin space. I'm an Asia-primary traveler and I never have problems with overhead bin space.
Apr 17, 2017, 6:34 am
#322
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP, UA1K/2MM, Marriott Platinum Premier Lifetime
Posts: 357
I think that United could do a couple of things.... You really need to entice passengers and show them that they matter. Reward loyalty and show empathy. If I was in a decision making position I would do the following:
1. Match AA with 8 GPU's.
2. To use a GPU you still need to buy W or above, however once you purchase it's confirmed at booking. No need to waitlist, and you get guaranteed use of your instrument. I firmly believe this would entice frequent fliers to consider United again.
3. Increase Voluntary denied boarding amount and mimic Delta with their "always voluntary" motto. Everyone has a "price."
4. Get rid of this "basic economy" crap. It's just a way to tack on extra fees. It makes the airline look slimy.
5. First checked bag free. I'm sure the airline makes a ton of money from this, but it would free up so much overhead bin space. I'm an Asia-primary traveler and I never have problems with overhead bin space.
1. Match AA with 8 GPU's.
2. To use a GPU you still need to buy W or above, however once you purchase it's confirmed at booking. No need to waitlist, and you get guaranteed use of your instrument. I firmly believe this would entice frequent fliers to consider United again.
3. Increase Voluntary denied boarding amount and mimic Delta with their "always voluntary" motto. Everyone has a "price."
4. Get rid of this "basic economy" crap. It's just a way to tack on extra fees. It makes the airline look slimy.
5. First checked bag free. I'm sure the airline makes a ton of money from this, but it would free up so much overhead bin space. I'm an Asia-primary traveler and I never have problems with overhead bin space.
Apr 17, 2017, 7:08 am
#323
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Seoul
Programs: None anymore
Posts: 983
AA and DL also have a "basic economy" product. What I really wish is that search engines (i.e. Google, Expedia, Orbitz, ITA Matrix) would let you exclude those product from searches (rather than just slapping a caveat about "restricted baggage" in place). Frankly, I've always skewed towards booking F, but the presence of those products has made me all but allergic to even checking Economy prices for fear of getting stuck with a "gotcha" fare.
Apr 17, 2017, 9:07 am
#325
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA MileagePlus (Premier Gold); Hilton HHonors (Gold); Chase Ultimate Rewards; Amex Plat
Posts: 6,642
Ouch. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/17/u...-airlines.html
So apparently people who have heard of the UA3411 incident, would pick AA at equal rates, if the AA flight was roughly $60 more expensive (compare with 81% who would pick UA, the cheaper option, among people who had not heard of UA3411). If priced identically, only 21% would choose UA, who had heard of this incident (compare with 49% who would pick UA among those who had not heard of UA3411).
So apparently people who have heard of the UA3411 incident, would pick AA at equal rates, if the AA flight was roughly $60 more expensive (compare with 81% who would pick UA, the cheaper option, among people who had not heard of UA3411). If priced identically, only 21% would choose UA, who had heard of this incident (compare with 49% who would pick UA among those who had not heard of UA3411).
Apr 17, 2017, 9:20 am
#326
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA - Silver, Hertz-5 star
Posts: 217
The please help us stay in business fare sale
$49 for short flights, $99 for mid-cons and $129 for coast-to-coast. At these prices not all we be forgiven but a lot will be forgotten.
The demographic of people posting on Flyertalk his heavily skewed to elite frequent flyers who depend on air travel for their livelihoods. 80% of the flying public is not in that demographic they choose on airline on price first, schedule 2nd and customer service reputation maybe 3rd.
If you ask an average flyer who is not concerned about earning miles or points and has to fly ORD/SDF like Mr. Dao did would you choose airline A at $82 or Airline B at $99 they will almost unanimously chose airline A at $82. It's a short flight service doesn't enter into the decision making process.
Even on longer flights where customer service may enter into the decision making process look at the success of Spirit and Allegiant, both have horrible reputations for service and fees but their planes are full and Wall St. loves them.
The demographic of people posting on Flyertalk his heavily skewed to elite frequent flyers who depend on air travel for their livelihoods. 80% of the flying public is not in that demographic they choose on airline on price first, schedule 2nd and customer service reputation maybe 3rd.
If you ask an average flyer who is not concerned about earning miles or points and has to fly ORD/SDF like Mr. Dao did would you choose airline A at $82 or Airline B at $99 they will almost unanimously chose airline A at $82. It's a short flight service doesn't enter into the decision making process.
Even on longer flights where customer service may enter into the decision making process look at the success of Spirit and Allegiant, both have horrible reputations for service and fees but their planes are full and Wall St. loves them.
Last edited by Paul510; Apr 17, 2017 at 9:31 am
Apr 17, 2017, 9:39 am
#327
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: Mileage Plus 1K; Marriott Platinum; Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,355
Apr 17, 2017, 11:23 am
#328
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,907
$49 for short flights, $99 for mid-cons and $129 for coast-to-coast. At these prices not all we be forgiven but a lot will be forgotten.
The demographic of people posting on Flyertalk his heavily skewed to elite frequent flyers who depend on air travel for their livelihoods. 80% of the flying public is not in that demographic they choose on airline on price first, schedule 2nd and customer service reputation maybe 3rd.
If you ask an average flyer who is not concerned about earning miles or points and has to fly ORD/SDF like Mr. Dao did would you choose airline A at $82 or Airline B at $99 they will almost unanimously chose airline A at $82. It's a short flight service doesn't enter into the decision making process.
Even on longer flights where customer service may enter into the decision making process look at the success of Spirit and Allegiant, both have horrible reputations for service and fees but their planes are full and Wall St. loves them.
The demographic of people posting on Flyertalk his heavily skewed to elite frequent flyers who depend on air travel for their livelihoods. 80% of the flying public is not in that demographic they choose on airline on price first, schedule 2nd and customer service reputation maybe 3rd.
If you ask an average flyer who is not concerned about earning miles or points and has to fly ORD/SDF like Mr. Dao did would you choose airline A at $82 or Airline B at $99 they will almost unanimously chose airline A at $82. It's a short flight service doesn't enter into the decision making process.
Even on longer flights where customer service may enter into the decision making process look at the success of Spirit and Allegiant, both have horrible reputations for service and fees but their planes are full and Wall St. loves them.
Apr 17, 2017, 11:35 am
#329
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
Posts: 10,764
$49 for short flights, $99 for mid-cons and $129 for coast-to-coast. At these prices not all we be forgiven but a lot will be forgotten.
The demographic of people posting on Flyertalk his heavily skewed to elite frequent flyers who depend on air travel for their livelihoods. 80% of the flying public is not in that demographic they choose on airline on price first, schedule 2nd and customer service reputation maybe 3rd.
If you ask an average flyer who is not concerned about earning miles or points and has to fly ORD/SDF like Mr. Dao did would you choose airline A at $82 or Airline B at $99 they will almost unanimously chose airline A at $82. It's a short flight service doesn't enter into the decision making process.
Even on longer flights where customer service may enter into the decision making process look at the success of Spirit and Allegiant, both have horrible reputations for service and fees but their planes are full and Wall St. loves them.
The demographic of people posting on Flyertalk his heavily skewed to elite frequent flyers who depend on air travel for their livelihoods. 80% of the flying public is not in that demographic they choose on airline on price first, schedule 2nd and customer service reputation maybe 3rd.
If you ask an average flyer who is not concerned about earning miles or points and has to fly ORD/SDF like Mr. Dao did would you choose airline A at $82 or Airline B at $99 they will almost unanimously chose airline A at $82. It's a short flight service doesn't enter into the decision making process.
Even on longer flights where customer service may enter into the decision making process look at the success of Spirit and Allegiant, both have horrible reputations for service and fees but their planes are full and Wall St. loves them.
Everyone knows that Spirit and Allegiant are cheapie airlines, but "incompetent" is not something they're known for, just no-frills and fees for everything. You know what you're getting into.
United's problem is that the incompetence and mistreatment is random and has the potential to be much worse than having to pay $3 for a bottle of water. I would think most people would prefer to pay $3, or even $30 if they're really thirsty, for a bottle of water if they know the staff isn't going to treat them like garbage, from check-in to boarding to in-flight.
Apr 17, 2017, 11:38 am
#330
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: United MileagePlus - Premier Gold, Star Alliance Gold, World of Hyatt Explorist, Avis Preferred Plus
Posts: 141
United Airlines will make some modifications to their previous protocols, but my money is that they won't change much. The overwhelming majority of the flying public, who might fly once a year on a family vacation, only cares about two things:
1. Flight safety
2. Price
Will this airline get me to my destination or will the plane crash due to insufficient maintenance or because we're flying on fumes? Is this the lowest price I can expect to pay to fly from A to B? Yes? Book it.
As more and more people switch over to other carriers three things will happen:
1. As demand at other carriers goes up, so will their ticket prices. Eventually the difference between them and UA will simply be too high to ignore.
2. As UA's demand takes a hit they will respond by lowering their fares (short-mid term) in order to increase capacity. People are more likely to take the bait.
3. As demand to fly with other airlines increases, the chances of the flight being overbooked increase as well. Passengers thinking "if I book with x and not UA, my chances of being bumped are nill" will be getting a very rude awakening.
With time people will forget about the Dao incident and start going back to UA until a 'market equilibrium' is reached again. Bottom line; safety and price determine where you book about 90% of the time for the overwhelming majority of people walking in airports.
1. Flight safety
2. Price
Will this airline get me to my destination or will the plane crash due to insufficient maintenance or because we're flying on fumes? Is this the lowest price I can expect to pay to fly from A to B? Yes? Book it.
As more and more people switch over to other carriers three things will happen:
1. As demand at other carriers goes up, so will their ticket prices. Eventually the difference between them and UA will simply be too high to ignore.
2. As UA's demand takes a hit they will respond by lowering their fares (short-mid term) in order to increase capacity. People are more likely to take the bait.
3. As demand to fly with other airlines increases, the chances of the flight being overbooked increase as well. Passengers thinking "if I book with x and not UA, my chances of being bumped are nill" will be getting a very rude awakening.
With time people will forget about the Dao incident and start going back to UA until a 'market equilibrium' is reached again. Bottom line; safety and price determine where you book about 90% of the time for the overwhelming majority of people walking in airports.
