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Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}

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Old Apr 10, 2017, 8:42 pm
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Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
DOT findings related to the UA3411 9 April 2017 IDB incident 12 May 2017

What facts do we know?
  • UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
  • After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
  • United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
  • After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
  • One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
  • The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
  • After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
  • United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”

United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017

Videos

Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,

Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.

As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.

I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.

Oscar

Summary of Flight 3411
  • On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
  • We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
  • He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
  • Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
  • Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Email sent to all employees at 2:08PM on Tuesday, April 11.
Dear Team,

The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.

I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.

It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.

I promise you we will do better.

Sincerely,

Oscar
Statement to customers - 27 April 2017
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.

Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.

For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?

It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.

Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.

That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.

We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.

We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.

While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.

I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.

Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."

Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.

We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.

With Great Gratitude,

Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Aftermath
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines Reference Material

UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.

If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.

We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspx
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Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}

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Old Apr 19, 2018, 2:28 pm
  #6871  
 
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Originally Posted by joe_miami
LOL. UA settled with Dao for p.r. reasons and because it was afraid some dumb jury would give him $347,000,000. There was no "theft" and the seat was not "legally possessed" after both UA and the police asked him to vacate it.

By your logic, an FA who orders a passenger to change seats for some reason is guilty of theft, which is laughable.
laugh at the case law then ymmv
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Old Apr 19, 2018, 2:34 pm
  #6872  
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Originally Posted by prestonh
laugh at the case law then ymmv
The case law? There's case law that says United is guilty of "theft" in cases of IDB? If so, why wasn't anyone from United arrested?
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Old Apr 19, 2018, 3:12 pm
  #6873  
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Originally Posted by joe_miami
LOL. Dao has probably saved FTers zero IDBs while costing us tens of thousands of dollars' worth of lost VDB vouchers.

Thanks for nothing, Dr. Dao.

Whooooosh. Because of this UA is not as likely to IBD. The way they will get around that is by paying MORE for VDB to make sure they get enough volunteers.
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Old Apr 19, 2018, 3:15 pm
  #6874  
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Originally Posted by GadgetFreak
Whooooosh. Because of this UA is not as likely to IBD. The way they will get around that is by paying MORE for VDB to make sure they get enough volunteers.
United wasn't likely to IDB before Dao. You seem to be arguing from some alternate flying universe. The only noticeable difference post-Dao is that VDBs are much rarer.
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Old Apr 19, 2018, 3:15 pm
  #6875  
 
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Originally Posted by prestonh
laugh at the case law then ymmv
Any exposure to UA for money damages resulting from injuries sustained would have related to the injuries occuring on UA property, and that case would be a stretch at best, IMO. So, getting away from personal injury damages, if we were to accept the argument that a ''theft' or some other tort occurred, by how much was Dao damaged? I don't believe in that context he was damaged beyond the cost of his ticket + other costs related to being reaccomodated. It doesn't explain the big money settlement (whereas PR does).
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Old Apr 19, 2018, 3:19 pm
  #6876  
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Originally Posted by joe_miami
United wasn't likely to IDB before Dao. You seem to be arguing from some alternate flying universe. The only noticeable difference post-Dao is that VDBs are much rarer.

Tell her. Although this was an IBD they can now give more for those. And UA is the second most likely to bump according to this article.

How to Get a $10,000 Travel Voucher from United Airlines | Money
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Old Apr 19, 2018, 3:56 pm
  #6877  
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Has anyone replicated that? If not, a "How to" is, in fact, unserious.

It's nice that a very few people have made big IDB scores post-Dao, but it would be even better if hundreds or thousands of people were still getting smaller VDBs, as was common pre-Dao.
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Old Apr 19, 2018, 4:04 pm
  #6878  
 
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Originally Posted by Italian_Kayaker
And if you are injured by the police because you resisted a false arrest, you sue for your injuries too...
Not here in California you can't.

Originally Posted by GadgetFreak
He paid to be on the plane. And as a result of United's problem they took him off. His only mistake was buying a ticket on United.
To be clear, he paid for transportation between point A and point B. Airlines are very clear that you are not paying for specific space on a specific plane.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 19, 2018 at 4:55 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
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Old Apr 19, 2018, 4:07 pm
  #6879  
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Originally Posted by joe_miami
Has anyone replicated that? If not, a "How to" is, in fact, unserious.

It's nice that a very few people have made big IDB scores post-Dao, but it would be even better if hundreds or thousands of people were still getting smaller VDBs, as was common pre-Dao.
Nobody got a $10K voucher for IDB. That story was discussed here in detail. At the point when she accepted the voucher, it became a VDB. IDB compensation is in United's CoC and hasn't changed -- it exactly meets the DOT minima.

Skimming the last couple of days of responses on this thread has reminded me why I stopped reading it in the first place. There doesn't seem to be much room for nuanced discussion -- it's "Dao was an over-entitled crybaby" vs "Dao was a courageous everyman." I don't see that changing anytime soon.

What I can say is that the fallout to me, personally, has been substantial -- fares are up and VDB opportunities are way, way down. I imagine many others are in the same boat.
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Old Apr 19, 2018, 4:27 pm
  #6880  
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Originally Posted by joe_miami
Has anyone replicated that? If not, a "How to" is, in fact, unserious.

It's nice that a very few people have made big IDB scores post-Dao, but it would be even better if hundreds or thousands of people were still getting smaller VDBs, as was common pre-Dao.
It just happened so time will tell. I haven’t noticed any difference but then again I stopped flying UA for the most part after I got my million miles. I would argue though that for the vast majority of any airline’s customers, they don’t want VDBs, they want to get where they are going when they planned. If this helps that happen then it’s a big plus for the average flyer, even if not for the very tiny minority here on FT.

Originally Posted by jsloan
Nobody got a $10K voucher for IDB. That story was discussed here in detail. At the point when she accepted the voucher, it became a VDB. IDB compensation is in United's CoC and hasn't changed -- it exactly meets the DOT minima.

Skimming the last couple of days of responses on this thread has reminded me why I stopped reading it in the first place. There doesn't seem to be much room for nuanced discussion -- it's "Dao was an over-entitled crybaby" vs "Dao was a courageous everyman." I don't see that changing anytime soon.

What I can say is that the fallout to me, personally, has been substantial -- fares are up and VDB opportunities are way, way down. I imagine many others are in the same boat.
Fine. She got a much higher amount of money because UA will pay more to get VDBs. I said that upthread a bit. SHe still got a lot more.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 19, 2018 at 5:09 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
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Old Apr 19, 2018, 4:35 pm
  #6881  
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Originally Posted by GadgetFreak
It just happened so time will tell.
It happened a year ago.

I would argue though that for the vast majority of any airline’s customers, they don’t want VDBs, they want to get where they are going when they planned. If this helps that happen then it’s a big plus for the average flyer, even if not for the very tiny minority here on FT.
The average flyer has never gotten a VDB offer, let alone taken a VDB, let alone been the victim of an IDB. And if the average flyer actually preferred to get to his destination ASAP rather than accept a VDB, the pre-Dao IDB and VDB percentages would have been reversed.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 19, 2018 at 5:04 pm Reason: discuss the issue;not the poster(s)
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Old Apr 19, 2018, 4:38 pm
  #6882  
 
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
Not here in California you can't.
Interesting, didn't know that. In this NY case, a man was awarded $15K for false arrest, and $500K for the attendant injuries.

https://www.newyorkinjurycasesblog.c...ards-affirmed/
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Old Apr 19, 2018, 4:44 pm
  #6883  
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False arrest requires negligence by the arresting officer(s). Even if United had been wrong to call the police, that wouldn't have made it a false arrest once Dao refused a lawful order by the police to stand up and exit the plane. The police certainly can't be expected to know the fine print of United's policies and procedures. If United wanted Dao off the plane, that was all that mattered. Any compensation due to Dao was between him and UA after the fact.
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Old Apr 19, 2018, 5:01 pm
  #6884  
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Originally Posted by joe_miami
It happened a year ago.

The average flyer has never gotten a VDB offer, let alone taken a VDB, let alone been the victim of an IDB. And if the average flyer actually preferred to get to his destination ASAP rather than accept a VDB, the pre-Dao IDB and VDB percentages would have been reversed.

I didn't realize it was a year ago.
{G}iven that the whole concept of IDB and VDB is present throughout the industry. I actually did get an IDB due to an equipment change on UA a few years ago while I was still a 1K. They handled it well and I was happy with the result. I do wonder how much of that was because the person I was dealing with was a station manager at a pretty large airport and had a lot more flexibility dealing with a 1K than a standard GA would have.

One of the big problems that this incident shows is the broader issue of airlines being, in my experience, way to quick to use cops or the threat of cops under the guise of "security" to settle customer service issues. UA should have never called the cops on this issue. They should have paid more to get a VDB.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 19, 2018 at 5:14 pm Reason: updated quote to reflect Moderator edit; removed response to deleted content
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Old Apr 19, 2018, 5:12 pm
  #6885  
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Originally Posted by GadgetFreak
One of the big problems that this incident shows is the broader issue of airlines being, in my experience, way to quick to use cops or the threat of cops under the guise of "security" to settle customer service issues. UA should have never called the cops on this issue. They should have paid more to get a VDB. .
I'd bet passengers have a better chance of being IDB'd than seeing the police involved or threatened in an airline-passenger dispute (let alone wrongly involved or threatened) — and the IDB rate was roughly 1 in 10,000 last year.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 19, 2018 at 5:15 pm Reason: quote updated to reflect Mod edit
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