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Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}

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Old Apr 10, 2017, 8:42 pm
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Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
DOT findings related to the UA3411 9 April 2017 IDB incident 12 May 2017

What facts do we know?
  • UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
  • After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
  • United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
  • After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
  • One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
  • The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
  • After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
  • United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”

United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017

Videos

Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,

Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.

As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.

I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.

Oscar

Summary of Flight 3411
  • On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
  • We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
  • He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
  • Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
  • Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Email sent to all employees at 2:08PM on Tuesday, April 11.
Dear Team,

The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.

I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.

It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.

I promise you we will do better.

Sincerely,

Oscar
Statement to customers - 27 April 2017
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.

Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.

For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?

It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.

Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.

That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.

We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.

We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.

While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.

I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.

Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."

Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.

We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.

With Great Gratitude,

Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Aftermath
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines Reference Material

UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.

If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.

We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspx
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Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}

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Old Apr 13, 2017, 7:09 pm
  #5221  
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Originally Posted by George Purcell
There is no "government rule" that designates crew as "must fly."
Exactly.

I'm always amused when I hear FA's say, "we're going illegal."

Illegal implies that a law is being broken. What law is broken if an FA works 5 minutes beyond what they are supposed to? Will someone be arrested?
aztimm is offline  
Old Apr 13, 2017, 7:09 pm
  #5222  
 
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
So it was the GA who called for the cops or whatever to come to the aircraft. Also, the GA seems to be (seems to have been?) a UA employee. One really wonders what she said when she made the phone call.

Reading between the lines, the UA pilots are almost criticizing the Republic Airline [sic?] pilots for hiding in the cockpit throughout the incident. It sounds like the FAs working the flight were also trying not to be involved.

I didn't notice any reference to the "manager" who supposedly came on board when the IDBs were being attempted.
A violent threat isn't necessary in the world of big airline procedure to call the cops.

Heres Delta doing it to a pax who decided to board ahead of her group by skipping the scanner.

https://consumerist.com/2016/12/13/police-physically-drag-passenger-off-delta-flight-after-she-refused-to-leave-plane/

No threat of harm or violence at all. Just non compliance with airline policy.

UA just happened to get caught when the cops called were incompetent.

They are hardly alone in removing pax via police for issues where threats are absent.

And to presume UA is the only bad actor is ignorant (not assuming MSPEconomist is making that presumption)
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Old Apr 13, 2017, 7:10 pm
  #5223  
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Originally Posted by robinhood
All three of these mall cops are getting fired for sure.
Here's more from the hearing in Chicago:
Jeff Redding, deputy commissioner for security for the Aviation Department, said the department's protocol is for security officers not to board a plane if they deem the call for help a "customer service incident" and there is no "immediate threat."
Aviation Commissioner Apologizes for Dragging Passenger Off United Flight.
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Old Apr 13, 2017, 7:13 pm
  #5224  
 
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Originally Posted by aztimm
Exactly.

I'm always amused when I hear FA's say, "we're going illegal."

Illegal implies that a law is being broken. What law is broken if an FA works 5 minutes beyond what they are supposed to? Will someone be arrested?
Crew working hours and rest times are legally regulated in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 14 "Aeronautics and Space". So it is against the law, even if it is the sort of law you don't typically get arrested for when you break it.
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Old Apr 13, 2017, 7:15 pm
  #5225  
 
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Crew scheduling...

For the experts who know all the facts and details, can you please confirm that if UA has confirmed the crew is scheduled to board this flight from their scheduling system? It is definitely possible that:

1. Scheduling system confirms the crew seats in the previous flights, but crew was late/lazy and want to get on UA3411.

2. Scheduling system confirms the crew seats in the later flights, but crew was early and wanted to get on UA3411.

If crew members force themselves into this flight while the scheduling system didn't put them on UA3411, then that's another issue UA has to answer to DOT/Class-Action-Lawsuit. I am trying to figure out what the heck UA means by 'definitely overbooked on April 9' but 'not overbooked' two days later.
PaulInTheSky is offline  
Old Apr 13, 2017, 7:15 pm
  #5226  
 
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Originally Posted by Ber2dca
Crew working hours and rest times are legally regulated in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 14 "Aeronautics and Space". So it is against the law, even if it is the sort of law you don't typically get arrested for when you break it.
You just get your license suspended or revoked which will guarantee your loss of employment.
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Old Apr 13, 2017, 7:17 pm
  #5227  
 
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Originally Posted by Kacee
Here's more from the hearing in Chicago:
Jeff Redding, deputy commissioner for security for the Aviation Department, said the department's protocol is for security officers not to board a plane if they deem the call for help a "customer service incident" and there is no "immediate threat."
So much for "YOU HAVE TO OBEY THEIR ORDER" and "Doesn't matter if it's a civil/contractual dispute"

I get the distinct feeling that the case is falling more and more apart as details roll in. This will wind up costing a lot of people a lot of real cash (rather than UA funny money).

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 14, 2017 at 2:00 am Reason: Discuss the issues, not the poster(s)
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Old Apr 13, 2017, 7:20 pm
  #5228  
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Originally Posted by aztimm
Exactly.

I'm always amused when I hear FA's say, "we're going illegal."

Illegal implies that a law is being broken. What law is broken if an FA works 5 minutes beyond what they are supposed to? Will someone be arrested?
Not arrested but there are consequences for exceeding the maximum FAA allowed work hours. Just like getting a speeding ticket, you are not arrested but you will have consequences for violating the law. Amount of work hours are designated by law for flight crews.
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Old Apr 13, 2017, 7:21 pm
  #5229  
 
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I am pretty sure after this, UA will not have to pull any pax out.

AS THEY WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO FILL THEIR FLIGHT FULL...so no more oversold flights.
Ausriver is offline  
Old Apr 13, 2017, 7:21 pm
  #5230  
 
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Originally Posted by WorldLux
So much for the "YOU HAVE TO OBEY THEIR ORDER" and the "Doesn't matter if it's a civil/contractual dispute" crowd

I get the distinct feeling that the case is falling more and more apart as details roll in. This will wind up costing a lot of people a lot of real cash (rather than UA funny money).
What's really amusing is that all of these points were being raised in the first 1,000 posts of this thread.
George Purcell is offline  
Old Apr 13, 2017, 7:22 pm
  #5231  
 
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Originally Posted by PaulInTheSky
For the experts who know all the facts and details, can you please confirm that if UA has confirmed the crew is scheduled to board this flight from their scheduling system? It is definitely possible that:

1. Scheduling system confirms the crew seats in the previous flights, but crew was late/lazy and want to get on UA3411.

2. Scheduling system confirms the crew seats in the later flights, but crew was early and wanted to get on UA3411.

If crew members force themselves into this flight while the scheduling system didn't put them on UA3411, then that's another issue UA has to answer to DOT/Class-Action-Lawsuit. I am trying to figure out what the heck UA means by 'definitely overbooked on April 9' but 'not overbooked' two days later.
I'm making a soft presumption that there was a mixture of panic at HQ and maybe some wires getting crossed. The press aren't the only ones who can get bad information...
GrayAnderson is offline  
Old Apr 13, 2017, 7:22 pm
  #5232  
 
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What are the Chicago aviation police?

Q: How many aviation officers are there?

A: About 300. Working at the city's two major airports, they are a mix of part- and full-time cops, and some work as police in other departments, said Adam Rosen, a spokesman for Service Employees International Union Local 73, which represents them. Full-timers earn between $50,000 and $88,000 a year and cost the city about $19 million a year.
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Old Apr 13, 2017, 7:24 pm
  #5233  
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Originally Posted by Ausriver
I am pretty sure after this, UA will not have to pull any pax out.

AS THEY WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO FILL THEIR FLIGHT FULL...so no more oversold flights.
The reason the flights are all full is airlines have gotten real good about right sizing the planes they fly on routes and adjusting the times and frequencies of those flights, all to keep the planes full. If the masses defect from UA they would right size the planes again and adjust routes and frequencies to keep the planes full.
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Old Apr 13, 2017, 7:26 pm
  #5234  
 
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Originally Posted by robinhood
Aviation security officers had been ordered to no longer wear uniforms emblazoned with the word "police" (and) were told in January to identify themselves as "security."
By wearing the shirts saying "police" they presented themselves as police officers, not as security personnel.
Impersonating a police officer is a crime.
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Old Apr 13, 2017, 7:28 pm
  #5235  
 
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Someone with actual airline operational experience/knowledge please chime in.

If the flight were to be cancelled, then unloaded, then have the identical plane rebooked and reloaded. To be completely legal, what is the minimum time it the delay would require?

Can it even be done that way, or is it just an unrealistic idea? What would the repercussions be?
Allan38103 is offline  


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