Apr 10, 2017, 8:42 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
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N.B. PLEASE do not alter the contents of this moderator note
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
What facts do we know?
- UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
- After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
- United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
- After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
- One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
- The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
- After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
- United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”
United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017
Videos
- Passenger one row behind and on the aisle footage BEFORE man was dragged off https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=655_1492004707
- Videos of man being removed https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b7_1491983214 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nAZEk6nsNE
- Video of man re-entering plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNEQDWpYbZA (link dead)
Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
- On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
- We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
- He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
- Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
- Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Dear Team,
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
- Chicago Aviation Department said on the Monday afternoon after the incident that the officer who had dragged the passenger off the plane had been placed on leave pending an investigation. Spokesperson Karen Pride said in an email that "The incident on United flight 3411 was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by the Department."
- 4/12/17: Two more Chicago Aviation officers involved are suspended
- Muñoz does ABC interview, announcing United will no longer use law enforcement to remove passengers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90jSUe_vdhM
- United announces policy change that crews traveling on their aircraft must be booked at least 60 minutes prior to departure.
- United releases multiple changes in overbooking / denied boarding policies "We are making changes to ensure that we always put customers first" (http://newsroom.united.com/2017-04-2...mer-Experience) released 27 April 2017
- Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
- Response to Senate Commerce Committee questions - 1 May 2017
- United Airlines PR Boss to Step Down
- James Long, one of several officers involved in removing David Dao from the April 9, 2017, flight to make room for airline employees, filed suit on Tuesday against United, Chicago’s Department of Aviation and its commissioner, Ginger Evans. The lawsuit, filed in the circuit court of Cook County, Illinois, alleges he was not properly trained on how to use force.
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines
Poll link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/KP68GYG
Results link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
Reference MaterialResults link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.
If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspxIf your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}
Apr 11, 2017, 12:50 pm
#3136
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 288
Not sure what you guys are complaining about... UNITED clearly follows their training guide
Apr 11, 2017, 12:52 pm
#3138
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 4,998
1. You lose the right to vote but can petition to have your rights reinstated by the Governor.
2. You lose your 2nd Amendment right to possess a firearm.
3. Banks and CC companies discriminate against ex-felons to where most can't even get a bank account. The minute you are sentenced to prison, most banks terminate your loans and accounts, even for short sentences.
I support the complete restoral of citizen rights after your probation period is complete.
Apr 11, 2017, 12:52 pm
#3139
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 563
I think the conclusion is totally legitimate. The moral outrage brigade is ignoring the various signs that point to this guy acting in a bizarre and unhinged fashion. The personal background is merely an explanation for why this guy's behavior was off.
People live such sheltered lives. Guess what, this guy didn't get especially rough treatment. If the cops had given him a good kicking while on the ground, I'd be the first to scream police brutality. But if someone wedged in a difficult to access position 'plays dead', he's asking to be dragged off. You do what you gotta do to get the guy moving. You don't stand there and offer the guy some extra cash or negotiate for hours. Life has to go on and it will go on even if you have to be carried off.
People live such sheltered lives. Guess what, this guy didn't get especially rough treatment. If the cops had given him a good kicking while on the ground, I'd be the first to scream police brutality. But if someone wedged in a difficult to access position 'plays dead', he's asking to be dragged off. You do what you gotta do to get the guy moving. You don't stand there and offer the guy some extra cash or negotiate for hours. Life has to go on and it will go on even if you have to be carried off.
Apr 11, 2017, 12:53 pm
#3141
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,110
I think for Flyertalk readers this is absurd behavior, but I'm not sure for the average layperson. Board or Boarding are not defined terms in the Contract of Carriage (interesting right?? because they define a hell of a lot of other terms). For an average person getting on a plane and getting in their seat is "boarding." I'm a lawyer so I understand the argument that all passengers should know the terms of the Contract of Carriage but since I'm a lawyer I also know that most of them have never clicked on the damn terms.
This person obviously didn't have status. His luggage is probably in the plane hold. He's 69 years old and just wants to get home (so let's throw out the 5 hour drive issue). Cash isn't being offered. He probably doesn't fly often enough to value a $800 voucher with a one year expiration.
If the first 2 passengers "picked" were Asian (I've not confirmed that story), then he's well within his rights to ask if only Asians are being picked to deplane (and why). Even when some poorly dressed "police" show up, I'm not going to blame him for staying in his seat.
What to do? How about giving him $1000 in cash while trying to get him out of the seat? Money talks. Vouchers not so much. Setting a precedent? It happens.
Amazing that a woman and her family pulled 11k worth of vouchers from Delta this past weekend for NYC to Florida flights, and this guy gets a bloody lip and knocked on the head on UA.
This person obviously didn't have status. His luggage is probably in the plane hold. He's 69 years old and just wants to get home (so let's throw out the 5 hour drive issue). Cash isn't being offered. He probably doesn't fly often enough to value a $800 voucher with a one year expiration.
If the first 2 passengers "picked" were Asian (I've not confirmed that story), then he's well within his rights to ask if only Asians are being picked to deplane (and why). Even when some poorly dressed "police" show up, I'm not going to blame him for staying in his seat.
What to do? How about giving him $1000 in cash while trying to get him out of the seat? Money talks. Vouchers not so much. Setting a precedent? It happens.
Amazing that a woman and her family pulled 11k worth of vouchers from Delta this past weekend for NYC to Florida flights, and this guy gets a bloody lip and knocked on the head on UA.
I'm just an average person who has spent way too many hours in airplanes.
If I was sitting on a jury and had the information about this as I know it right now I wouldn't care what the CoC said. This guy was boarded using any reasonable definition. The airline had assigned a seat, the passenger had checked in on time and was allowed to board the aircraft. I don't care if the door was open, closed, or in motion.
IF the airline had to find some room in the aircraft for a problem of their own making, over sold seats, or some other reason, then the airline should have stepped up, bigly in this case, taking care of business. That didn't happen which I would weight heavily on the ability of the airline to deal with standard practices that are caused by favoring company over passenger.
The airline through its representatives failed at the gate and management failed again when addressing the issue. Today stockholders are paying the price and may continue to pay for some time.
Apr 11, 2017, 12:54 pm
#3142
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,012
"Boarding" is the act of coming 'aboard' the vessel. That is, in or onto. And you've offered nothing demonstrating otherwise.
Apr 11, 2017, 12:54 pm
#3143
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 47
Now that it's been established the guy in question is a convicted criminal with a history of mental issues, I expect people to separate the two issues here:
- Industry practice/protocols related to IDB
- Lunatic refuses to comply with police orders and obtains minor injuries while being removed from the plane.
- Industry practice/protocols related to IDB
- Lunatic refuses to comply with police orders and obtains minor injuries while being removed from the plane.
It seems to me there are a lot more lunatics on this thread than there were on the plane.
Apr 11, 2017, 12:56 pm
#3145
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,042
The pilot jumpseat just requires you be a pilot. However the jumpseats that FA sit in on all airlines I know require that you be certified in that type of aircraft. The pilot in the jumpseat isn't going to be in the way of the other pilots iny an emergency. Someone sitting in a FA seat will indeed be in the way of a FA needing to open both doors, etc. They'll also be looked to for assistance in an emergency even if off duty.
Apr 11, 2017, 12:56 pm
#3146
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 602
Some thoughts:
Now I'm just waiting to see how Mr Mundoz (?) & Co. are going to spin it to blame the whole incident on the ME3, and EK in particular.
- Excessive overbooking and miscellaneous pathology has become the norm in the US as airlines know they can get away with anything and no serious sanctions are ever forthcoming. Free-market mechanisms appear to be insufficient to ensure consumers' rights in what is practically an oligopoly now, which makes a compelling argument for EU-style passenger rights legislation.
- The incident is not a straightforward "denied boarding" situation as the passengers were issued boarding passes with seat numbers and allowed to board on that basis.
- It is regrettable that the police allowed themselves to be reduced to the role of bouncers, taking sides in what is essentially a contractual dispute.
- It is disturbing that violence was used against an apparently non-violent individual who legitimately boarded the flight and peacefully remained in the seat that was assigned to him.
- The worst part of the whole incident is the official reaction to it by the company's CEO: the public non-apology apology for having to "re-accommodate" a "belligerent" passenger, while concurrently, to a different audience, claiming to "emphatically stand behind" all of the employees, including those whose errors led to the mishandling of this whole situation and the subsequent escalation, giving the impression that for this company customers are at best nothing more than the necessary evil.
- It would be even worse if, as it appears at the moment, the airline's response were actually a part of a coherent strategy to smear that particular customer to make the public believe that he deserved being beaten to a pulp. If this is what they're up to, it is only going to cause them even more damage.
- I don't really understand why some people believe the incident was racially motivated but if this is what the Chinese people have concluded, whether rightly or wrongly, the impact on the company will be severe, and I can't really force myself to feel sorry for them: couldn't have happened to a nicer airline.
Now I'm just waiting to see how Mr Mundoz (?) & Co. are going to spin it to blame the whole incident on the ME3, and EK in particular.
Last edited by ProleOnParole; Apr 11, 2017 at 1:13 pm
Apr 11, 2017, 12:56 pm
#3147
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: OCONUS
Programs: Presidential Airways High Value Target, Catfish Air Flare, Hootch Honors Gold
Posts: 9,048
Just as an aiside, and not taking sides (at the moment)...
I've been a member of Flyertalk for a minute, and I don't think I've ever seen a topic rocket like this one, pulling in a lot of regulars but also a lot of joiners, some of whom seem to actually be paid corporate people trying to spn manage.
Not the point I was trying to make. Let me try again. Regardless of who you think is right or wrong, I think this maybe a touchstone case that leads to regulatory or legal changes. For sure every other domestic US airline (and a whole group of foreign ones) are paying really close attention to the entire debacle.
United Airlines has lost at least half a billion dollars of market value over this issue so far. That's not a blip and while it will inevitably bounce back some, it will definitely affect both it's value to shareholders and likely it's bottom line as we head into the spring/summer vacation season.
People are feeling the effects of near constant 105% capacity aircraft, I myself cannot remember the last not-completely-full United flight I was on. I think this "stuff it like a clown car" mentality (while I understand the profit motives) is starting to backfire. You're seeing more altercations aboard aircraft, and more issues with rude staff and rude pax. Everyone feels irritable almost all the time aboard a US based aircraft.
Contrast that with my two recent trips on Lufthansa twice, and it's a marked difference. Both times, one of which was "completely full" there were still the occasional scattered available seats. Lufthansa also knows there will be no-shows, but apparently factors them in at a lower rate, and so they don't seem to ask for VDBs much. In addition, on these (relatively) short haul flights I was offered a sandwich or breakfast cake, free, as part of the service. I was offered water, coffee or soda free, as part of the service. In every way I felt more welcomed and appreciated than I have on any US based airline that I've flown (UA, Delta and USAir) in the last five years.
I'm not a Lufthansa flag waver, I am very sure they have their issues and I'm sure there are horror stories. It just that it seems to me like the major US carriers are all in a race to the bottom line, and in doing so, they are fundamentally forgetting that the passenger is the reason they exist.
And I think these situations are going to get worse, before they get better.
Regards,
-Bouncer-
I've been a member of Flyertalk for a minute, and I don't think I've ever seen a topic rocket like this one, pulling in a lot of regulars but also a lot of joiners, some of whom seem to actually be paid corporate people trying to spn manage.
Not the point I was trying to make. Let me try again. Regardless of who you think is right or wrong, I think this maybe a touchstone case that leads to regulatory or legal changes. For sure every other domestic US airline (and a whole group of foreign ones) are paying really close attention to the entire debacle.
United Airlines has lost at least half a billion dollars of market value over this issue so far. That's not a blip and while it will inevitably bounce back some, it will definitely affect both it's value to shareholders and likely it's bottom line as we head into the spring/summer vacation season.
People are feeling the effects of near constant 105% capacity aircraft, I myself cannot remember the last not-completely-full United flight I was on. I think this "stuff it like a clown car" mentality (while I understand the profit motives) is starting to backfire. You're seeing more altercations aboard aircraft, and more issues with rude staff and rude pax. Everyone feels irritable almost all the time aboard a US based aircraft.
Contrast that with my two recent trips on Lufthansa twice, and it's a marked difference. Both times, one of which was "completely full" there were still the occasional scattered available seats. Lufthansa also knows there will be no-shows, but apparently factors them in at a lower rate, and so they don't seem to ask for VDBs much. In addition, on these (relatively) short haul flights I was offered a sandwich or breakfast cake, free, as part of the service. I was offered water, coffee or soda free, as part of the service. In every way I felt more welcomed and appreciated than I have on any US based airline that I've flown (UA, Delta and USAir) in the last five years.
I'm not a Lufthansa flag waver, I am very sure they have their issues and I'm sure there are horror stories. It just that it seems to me like the major US carriers are all in a race to the bottom line, and in doing so, they are fundamentally forgetting that the passenger is the reason they exist.
And I think these situations are going to get worse, before they get better.
Regards,
-Bouncer-
Apr 11, 2017, 12:57 pm
#3148
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
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But that isn't the case. At some point people would accept the offer. And they woul3d take the voluntary delay. It's just that it was easy for United to resort to law enforcement rather than the free market.
Apr 11, 2017, 12:57 pm
#3149
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
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Some collected funny memes courtesy of my hometown paper the San Antonio Express News.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/nat...photo-12703387
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/nat...photo-12703387
Apr 11, 2017, 12:58 pm
#3150
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Gila, NM, USA
Posts: 1,044
Well said Bear
I remember what happened here on 9/11, how FT'ers all around the world selflessly accommodated those who were stranded, people posting that they were headed to the airport to pick people up and how many they could accommodate in their homes, taking in strangers for days. Lifetime friendships were formed. I don't recall anyone saying "we can accommodate you but only if you're perfect, or you're just like me." It was a beautiful expression of the very best in all of us I think, unafraid, full of compassion, honoring differences and acting selflessly. I'm out but I will make a donation today to Habitat for Humanity in honor of Dao and all those on FT who accommodated strangers on 9/11.
Last edited by Steffo; Apr 11, 2017 at 1:00 pm Reason: Mistake in who I named