Apr 10, 2017, 8:42 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
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N.B. PLEASE do not alter the contents of this moderator note
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
What facts do we know?
- UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
- After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
- United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
- After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
- One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
- The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
- After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
- United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”
United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017
Videos
- Passenger one row behind and on the aisle footage BEFORE man was dragged off https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=655_1492004707
- Videos of man being removed https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b7_1491983214 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nAZEk6nsNE
- Video of man re-entering plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNEQDWpYbZA (link dead)
Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
- On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
- We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
- He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
- Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
- Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Dear Team,
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
- Chicago Aviation Department said on the Monday afternoon after the incident that the officer who had dragged the passenger off the plane had been placed on leave pending an investigation. Spokesperson Karen Pride said in an email that "The incident on United flight 3411 was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by the Department."
- 4/12/17: Two more Chicago Aviation officers involved are suspended
- Muńoz does ABC interview, announcing United will no longer use law enforcement to remove passengers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90jSUe_vdhM
- United announces policy change that crews traveling on their aircraft must be booked at least 60 minutes prior to departure.
- United releases multiple changes in overbooking / denied boarding policies "We are making changes to ensure that we always put customers first" (http://newsroom.united.com/2017-04-2...mer-Experience) released 27 April 2017
- Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
- Response to Senate Commerce Committee questions - 1 May 2017
- United Airlines PR Boss to Step Down
- James Long, one of several officers involved in removing David Dao from the April 9, 2017, flight to make room for airline employees, filed suit on Tuesday against United, Chicago’s Department of Aviation and its commissioner, Ginger Evans. The lawsuit, filed in the circuit court of Cook County, Illinois, alleges he was not properly trained on how to use force.
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines
Poll link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/KP68GYG
Results link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
Reference MaterialResults link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.
If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspxIf your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}
Apr 10, 2017, 11:46 pm
#1906
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: WN, AA, UA, DL
Posts: 1,313
Emphatic is a very similar adjective. It's highly conceivable that he was all of the above.
Apr 10, 2017, 11:46 pm
#1907
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: UA Gold MM, HHonors Gold, Hertz Five Star Gold, Marriott Gold, Avis First
Posts: 462
If you had to purchase tires for your car to get to work and they offered to sell it to you for $800, you wouldn't say "thats nice, but i'd rather pay you $1,500 instead because i'm nice and i want to help you out"
would you?
Neither would United. Normally its not a problem. They make decisions that are best for them and acceptable to their customers. On this one occasion, something unpredictable occurred and their total value was reduced.
would you?
Neither would United. Normally its not a problem. They make decisions that are best for them and acceptable to their customers. On this one occasion, something unpredictable occurred and their total value was reduced.
Apr 10, 2017, 11:47 pm
#1908
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: AA Gold, Enterprise PLT, Marriott Gold
Posts: 604
If the airline refused, a simple DOT complaint and that would clear that up real fast. The airline would have no choice.
See I actually worked for an airline for awhile and know how this works, I am not just a frequent flyer who is commenting based on flying a lot.
Apr 10, 2017, 11:48 pm
#1909
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: UA Gold MM, HHonors Gold, Hertz Five Star Gold, Marriott Gold, Avis First
Posts: 462
Really. See that's funny because you are speaking to someone who was a gate agent for 5 years for American airlines up until 2015, and I have personally been involved in IDB situations where no VDB was able to be found and have seen the checks handed over personally....
If the airline refused, a simple DOT complaint and that would clear that up real fast. The airline would have no choice.
See I actually worked for an airline for awhile and know how this works, I am not just a frequent flyer who is commenting based on flying a lot.
If the airline refused, a simple DOT complaint and that would clear that up real fast. The airline would have no choice.
See I actually worked for an airline for awhile and know how this works, I am not just a frequent flyer who is commenting based on flying a lot.
Apr 10, 2017, 11:48 pm
#1910
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: LIT
Programs: Blinged Out
Posts: 716
Apologies if I'm repeating anything upthread, but I'm really not interested in reading 127 pages, and you can ignore my comments as well.
While I don't disagree that sometimes airlines, and their agents, behave egregiously, please take the following FACTS into consideration.
UA was paying $800. ORD to SDF by car is 5 hours (okay, it's Google Maps, but we can consider it a reasonable estimate). For a 1-way car rental I'm getting a quote of $175 from carrentals.com.
My calculus would be, carry on like a child and risk bodily harm (and detainment by the "authorities"), or take the $600 net and a couple of hours inconvenience (with the potential to go back to UA to get some additional compensation) and, as an adult, figure lemons...lemonade.
Unless, of course, becoming a social-media thing with your 15 minutes (or less) of fame is on your bucket list.
Possibly the greatest irony is that this wasn't a UA-operated flight - it was UX, operated by Republic. Doesn't excuse any of this, but I do find it of some amusement that the two latest and greatest dust-ups for UA involve a) violations of express dress codes in conjunction with "buddy passes" (the leggings bit), and b) a flight that UA markets but doesn't operate. For all of the critics out there, especially the ones who will never ever give UA any more business, please enlighten us as to your experience at the level of complexity of operations of a major airline, and how you were perfect.
I am neither an employee of, nor an apologist for UA or any other airline, just a long-time traveler, and citizen of the world who understands that sometimes, s**t happens, and it stinks, and, if the worst thing that ever happens to me is losing a couple of hours during travel, I consider myself extremely fortunate.
While I don't disagree that sometimes airlines, and their agents, behave egregiously, please take the following FACTS into consideration.
UA was paying $800. ORD to SDF by car is 5 hours (okay, it's Google Maps, but we can consider it a reasonable estimate). For a 1-way car rental I'm getting a quote of $175 from carrentals.com.
My calculus would be, carry on like a child and risk bodily harm (and detainment by the "authorities"), or take the $600 net and a couple of hours inconvenience (with the potential to go back to UA to get some additional compensation) and, as an adult, figure lemons...lemonade.
Unless, of course, becoming a social-media thing with your 15 minutes (or less) of fame is on your bucket list.
Possibly the greatest irony is that this wasn't a UA-operated flight - it was UX, operated by Republic. Doesn't excuse any of this, but I do find it of some amusement that the two latest and greatest dust-ups for UA involve a) violations of express dress codes in conjunction with "buddy passes" (the leggings bit), and b) a flight that UA markets but doesn't operate. For all of the critics out there, especially the ones who will never ever give UA any more business, please enlighten us as to your experience at the level of complexity of operations of a major airline, and how you were perfect.
I am neither an employee of, nor an apologist for UA or any other airline, just a long-time traveler, and citizen of the world who understands that sometimes, s**t happens, and it stinks, and, if the worst thing that ever happens to me is losing a couple of hours during travel, I consider myself extremely fortunate.
Furthermore, he likely doesn't fly often, as the airlines often go for pax with no status/low fares. Perhaps he knew the $800 would never be redeemed.
Apr 10, 2017, 11:49 pm
#1911
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,035
If you had to purchase tires for your car to get to work and they offered to sell it to you for $800, you wouldn't say "thats nice, but i'd rather pay you $1,500 instead because i'm nice and i want to help you out"
would you?
Neither would United. Normally its not a problem. They make decisions that are best for them and acceptable to their customers. On this one occasion, something unpredictable occurred and their total value was reduced.
would you?
Neither would United. Normally its not a problem. They make decisions that are best for them and acceptable to their customers. On this one occasion, something unpredictable occurred and their total value was reduced.
Apr 10, 2017, 11:49 pm
#1912
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: MPC, Marriott, Hyatt
Posts: 407
AP reporting that UA could have spent less than the 800 offered for IDB and just flown the deadhead crew to SDF on another airline (AP quoting just more than $100 total, after intercarrier discount, for four on WN from Midway to SDF).
So query whether this is even penny wise. :P It is starting to sound like penny foolish pound foolish!
http://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/2086635/uniteds-booting-passenger-was-even-worse-it-looks
So query whether this is even penny wise. :P It is starting to sound like penny foolish pound foolish!
http://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/2086635/uniteds-booting-passenger-was-even-worse-it-looks
Apr 10, 2017, 11:50 pm
#1913
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: AA Gold, Enterprise PLT, Marriott Gold
Posts: 604
Secondly, him being suspended could be the abuse of force. Many a LEO's have removed pax from a/c, but not all involved ripping a guy out of his seat and dragging him.
Also him not being arrested doesn't mean anything. They easily could have felt he had been through enough and it didn't warrant damaging the guys life further. I am glad to hear he isn't being charged. It was simply an unfortunate incident all around.
Apr 10, 2017, 11:52 pm
#1914
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 13
I am sure somebody already posted it but whatever it was, they should solve it BEFORE boarding, not AFTER. Even if it's a last second change.
Tin
Tin
Apr 10, 2017, 11:52 pm
#1915
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 4,993
UA has a hierarchy somewhat like the involuntary downgrade order. As always, the highest paid fare and GS trumps all else. UA rates passengers on their perceived value as revenue producers. NRPS are totally immune, so the 4 crew, once added to the manifest, could not be deboarded.
Apr 10, 2017, 11:55 pm
#1916
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: AA Gold, Enterprise PLT, Marriott Gold
Posts: 604
Yes, as does everyone. I actually do feel UA could have done a better job overall, but it was their right to remove the man. Trust me I am just as hard on airline personnel as I am lenient at times because I've been there.
Anytime I encountered an IDB pax I did my best to explain it to them, promised them I would do everything in my power to get them to where they need to be asap, and make sure I assist them in any compensation I can get them because I hated that the airline put me in that position. Fortunately the only times I ever had to get LEO's involved on IDB boarding is because the pax was intoxicated and unfit to fly.
I am however sick of reading people who really don't know what goes on or how it goes on, being outraged. Not so much on here, but in the general public overall. Especially a lot of the people out there right now who don't bother to know the rules before travel.
Anytime I encountered an IDB pax I did my best to explain it to them, promised them I would do everything in my power to get them to where they need to be asap, and make sure I assist them in any compensation I can get them because I hated that the airline put me in that position. Fortunately the only times I ever had to get LEO's involved on IDB boarding is because the pax was intoxicated and unfit to fly.
I am however sick of reading people who really don't know what goes on or how it goes on, being outraged. Not so much on here, but in the general public overall. Especially a lot of the people out there right now who don't bother to know the rules before travel.
Apr 10, 2017, 11:55 pm
#1917
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: West of CLE
Programs: Delta DM/3 MM; Hertz PC; National EE; Amtrak GR; Bonvoy Silver; Via Rail Préférence
Posts: 5,383
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(720 ILCS 5/26-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 26-1)
Sec. 26-1. Disorderly conduct.
(a) A person commits disorderly conduct when he or she knowingly:
(1) Does any act in such unreasonable manner as to alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace;
(2) Transmits or causes to be transmitted in any manner to the fire department of any city, town, village or fire protection district a false alarm of fire, knowing at the time of the transmission that there is no reasonable ground for believing that the fire exists;
(3) Transmits or causes to be transmitted in any manner to another a false alarm to the effect that a bomb or other explosive of any nature or a container holding poison gas, a deadly biological or chemical contaminant, or radioactive substance is concealed in a place where its explosion or release would endanger human life, knowing at the time of the transmission that there is no reasonable ground for believing that the bomb, explosive or a container holding poison gas, a deadly biological or chemical contaminant, or radioactive substance is concealed in the place;
(3.5) Transmits or causes to be transmitted a threat of destruction of a school building or school property, or a threat of violence, death, or bodily harm directed against persons at a school, school function, or school event, whether or not school is in session;
(4) Transmits or causes to be transmitted in any manner to any peace officer, public officer or public employee a report to the effect that an offense will be committed, is being committed, or has been committed, knowing at the time of the transmission that there is no reasonable ground for believing that the offense will be committed, is being committed, or has been committed;
(5) Transmits or causes to be transmitted a false report to any public safety agency without the reasonable grounds necessary to believe that transmitting the report is necessary for the safety and welfare of the public; or
(6) Calls the number "911" for the purpose of making or transmitting a false alarm or complaint and reporting information when, at the time the call or transmission is made, the person knows there is no reasonable ground for making the call or transmission and further knows that the call or transmission could result in the emergency response of any public safety agency;
(7) Transmits or causes to be transmitted a false report to the Department of Children and Family Services under Section 4 of the Abused and Neglected Child Reporting Act;
(8) Transmits or causes to be transmitted a false eport to the Department of Public Health under the Nursing Home Care Act, the Specialized Mental Health Rehabilitation Act of 2013, the ID/DD Community Care Act, or the MC/DD Act;
(9) Transmits or causes to be transmitted in any manner to the police department or fire department of any municipality or fire protection district, or any privately owned and operated ambulance service, a false request for an ambulance, emergency medical technician-ambulance or emergency medical technician-paramedic knowing at the time there is no reasonable ground for believing that the assistance is required;
(10) Transmits or causes to be transmitted a false report under Article II of Public Act 83-1432;
(11) Enters upon the property of another and for a lewd or unlawful purpose deliberately looks into a dwelling on the property through any window or other opening in it; or
(12) While acting as a collection agency as defined in the Collection Agency Act or as an employee of the collection agency, and while attempting to collect an alleged debt, makes a telephone call to the alleged debtor which is designed to harass, annoy or intimidate the alleged debtor.
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I don't see anything in this law that the passenger violated. The catch all provision of this law is: "Does any act in such unreasonable manner as to alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace". I'm not sure that he did anything that was unreasonable. This law does not cover compliance with an unlawful order from an individual with no authority to decide a private contractual matter. From the reporting I've seen, it does not appear that the passenger took a swing at anyone. Criminal laws cannot be vague; they must be specific and spell out the elements of the crime.
The Chicago Aviation Police acted like goons. Hopefully, justice will be in their future, too.
Apr 10, 2017, 11:56 pm
#1918
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,035
Not necessarily. First off it's a viral video so of course the police are going to try and save face whether they actually think their LEO was wrong or right.
Secondly, him being suspended could be the abuse of force. Many a LEO's have removed pax from a/c, but not all involved ripping a guy out of his seat and dragging him.
Also him not being arrested doesn't mean anything. They easily could have felt he had been through enough and it didn't warrant damaging the guys life further. I am glad to hear he isn't being charged. It was simply an unfortunate incident all around.
Secondly, him being suspended could be the abuse of force. Many a LEO's have removed pax from a/c, but not all involved ripping a guy out of his seat and dragging him.
Also him not being arrested doesn't mean anything. They easily could have felt he had been through enough and it didn't warrant damaging the guys life further. I am glad to hear he isn't being charged. It was simply an unfortunate incident all around.
And as far as not being arrested because of what he went through, sorry but a Chicago cop?? Really.
Apr 10, 2017, 11:56 pm
#1919
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: New Orleans, AA EXP, DL PM, SPG PLT, HH Diamond
Posts: 3,750
Ha ha. Stick it to em WN with those low fares..
AP reporting that UA could have spent less than the 800 offered for IDB and just flown the deadhead crew to SDF on another airline (AP quoting just more than $100 total, after intercarrier discount, for four on WN from Midway to SDF).
So query whether this is even penny wise. :P It is starting to sound like penny foolish pound foolish!
http://www.scmp.com/news/world/unite...worse-it-looks
So query whether this is even penny wise. :P It is starting to sound like penny foolish pound foolish!
http://www.scmp.com/news/world/unite...worse-it-looks
Apr 10, 2017, 11:57 pm
#1920
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 812
Really. See that's funny because you are speaking to someone who was a gate agent for 5 years for American airlines up until 2015, and I have personally been involved in IDB situations where no VDB was able to be found and have seen the checks handed over personally....
If the airline refused, a simple DOT complaint and that would clear that up real fast. The airline would have no choice.
See I actually worked for an airline for awhile and know how this works, I am not just a frequent flyer who is commenting based on flying a lot.
If the airline refused, a simple DOT complaint and that would clear that up real fast. The airline would have no choice.
See I actually worked for an airline for awhile and know how this works, I am not just a frequent flyer who is commenting based on flying a lot.
Your attitude exemplifies why flying is a huge pain these days. Entitled employees treating the customers that pay their salaries as a nuisance to be dispensed with as quickly as possible.