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Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}

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Old Apr 10, 2017, 8:42 pm
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Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
DOT findings related to the UA3411 9 April 2017 IDB incident 12 May 2017

What facts do we know?
  • UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
  • After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
  • United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
  • After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
  • One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
  • The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
  • After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
  • United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”

United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017

Videos

Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,

Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.

As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.

I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.

Oscar

Summary of Flight 3411
  • On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
  • We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
  • He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
  • Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
  • Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Email sent to all employees at 2:08PM on Tuesday, April 11.
Dear Team,

The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.

I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.

It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.

I promise you we will do better.

Sincerely,

Oscar
Statement to customers - 27 April 2017
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.

Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.

For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?

It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.

Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.

That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.

We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.

We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.

While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.

I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.

Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."

Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.

We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.

With Great Gratitude,

Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Aftermath
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines Reference Material

UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.

If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.

We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspx
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Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}

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Old Apr 10, 2017, 11:40 pm
  #1891  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: WN, AA, UA, DL
Posts: 1,313
Originally Posted by aceflyer2
One of the results of less competition in the industry: they think they can do what they want, when they want, and to whom they want.
VDB and IDB rates are down significantly at almost all U.S. airlines since 2010. The one outlier? B6, the one airline that doesn't overbook. Their IDB rate is nearly the highest.

Unfortunately facts often go against the popular narrative.

http://milecards.com/2017-airline-bu...or-volunteers/
minnyfly is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 11:41 pm
  #1892  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Originally Posted by ND76
The issue here is that the police got in the middle of a civil contract dispute, and sided with one party over the other, which they had no right to do. The passenger had a property right in enforcing his contract to be flown to SDF. The police violated the civil rights of the passenger under color of state law, which is a violation of the federal Civil Rights Act.

Next time, UA/Republic need to get a private plane to transport their crew members.
That's total and complete nonsense. At the worst he has a claim against the LEO for abuse of force, but the LEO's have every right to remove him as he was clearly a case of Disorderly Conduct, whether fair or not.
SpinOn2 is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 11:41 pm
  #1893  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Originally Posted by SpinOn2
We aren't talking about renting an apartment, this is purchasing an airline ticket. There are different laws for each.

If the DOT came forth and said no airline is allowed to IDB a pax unless reason of safety, then he would have an argument.

Regardless, even if the cops were in the wrong, they gave him orders, he refused to follow them. That is a crime, you cannot deny that. After the fact if it is proven the airline or LEO was in the wrong, then you sort it out.
DOT clearly states that passenger to be given written documentation explaining IDB - that did not happen based on multiple accounts. So UA did not follow the law. UA had other choices including going down the list to the next person.
denuaflier is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 11:41 pm
  #1894  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 4,990
Originally Posted by economyplusfan
Notify the non-complying pax that he will be arrested upon disembarkation for failing to follow crew instructions or whatever, go down the list to the next pax, and VDB them. Crew obviously thought the presence of police on the plane would induce the pax to get off; I can't imagine they directed the police to drag the guy off. But still, calling the police onto the plane was not a good move when other options were available. I think this demonstrates tired and frazzled crew and gate staff more than anything else.
Hey, this is an excellent idea.^
I saw this once before, a long time ago, and it worked like a charm.
The guy voluntarily left the plane.
zombietooth is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 11:41 pm
  #1895  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS after 40+ SFO/OAK
Programs: UA MM (recovering former 1K), Marriott Titanium Lifetime
Posts: 550
Apologies if I'm repeating anything upthread, but I'm really not interested in reading 127 pages, and you can ignore my comments as well.

While I don't disagree that sometimes airlines, and their agents, behave egregiously, please take the following FACTS into consideration.

UA was paying $800. ORD to SDF by car is 5 hours (okay, it's Google Maps, but we can consider it a reasonable estimate). For a 1-way car rental I'm getting a quote of $175 from carrentals.com.

My calculus would be, carry on like a child and risk bodily harm (and detainment by the "authorities"), or take the $600 net and a couple of hours inconvenience (with the potential to go back to UA to get some additional compensation) and, as an adult, figure lemons...lemonade.

Unless, of course, becoming a social-media thing with your 15 minutes (or less) of fame is on your bucket list.

Possibly the greatest irony is that this wasn't a UA-operated flight - it was UX, operated by Republic. Doesn't excuse any of this, but I do find it of some amusement that the two latest and greatest dust-ups for UA involve a) violations of express dress codes in conjunction with "buddy passes" (the leggings bit), and b) a flight that UA markets but doesn't operate. For all of the critics out there, especially the ones who will never ever give UA any more business, please enlighten us as to your experience at the level of complexity of operations of a major airline, and how you were perfect.

I am neither an employee of, nor an apologist for UA or any other airline, just a long-time traveler, and citizen of the world who understands that sometimes, {things} happens, and it stinks, and, if the worst thing that ever happens to me is losing a couple of hours during travel, I consider myself extremely fortunate.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 10, 2017 at 11:48 pm Reason: Using symbols, spaces or other methods to mask vulgarities is not allowed.
garkster is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 11:42 pm
  #1896  
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So many headlines, so little time.....

.
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Old Apr 10, 2017, 11:42 pm
  #1897  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 812
Originally Posted by SpinOn2
Regardless, even if the cops were in the wrong, they gave him orders, he refused to follow them. That is a crime, you cannot deny that. After the fact if it is proven the airline or LEO was in the wrong, then you sort it out.
Disobeying an illegal order is not a crime.

If a police officer gives you a gun and tells you to shoot your neighbor, it's not a crime to ignore the cop.

This is still America. There's something called the rule of law. It means that everyone, even those in positions of "authority," are bound by law. One of those laws is that people in positions of authority cannot use disproportionate force.
sincx is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 11:42 pm
  #1898  
 
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In looking at this whole situation, UA/Republic should have canceled the flight, and then rescheduled it under a new flight number.

Where UA/Republic is going to get hurt is when the plaintiff's attorneys take discovery and find that various United elites were not included in the "lottery" that led to the passenger being ejected. UA/Republic's explanation about this will be very interesting.

The plaintiff needs to sue UA/Republic in Kentucky; hopefully the plaintiff lives in a rural county outside Louisville. Punitive damages, here we come.
ND76 is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 11:42 pm
  #1899  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
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Originally Posted by SpinOn2
No, when he was asked to leave that's IDB, that is subject to cash compensation depending on how long he is delayed reaching his destination. If he was not going to get out til the next day, he would have received over $1,000 dollars check in compensation per the DOT. The airline would have had no choice.

In your scenario, if asked to leave and I refuse to comply, and you call the cops and they agree it's you're place and I have to go, I go. I would want a refund and other compensation sure, but I would not tell the police to F off.
Acting like airlines willingly fork over that compensation is disingenuous. They don't; you have to fight them to get due compensation. If you don't know your rights, then all the better for them, they save money. They will not inform you of your rights.
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Old Apr 10, 2017, 11:42 pm
  #1900  
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Originally Posted by SpinOn2
We aren't talking about renting an apartment, this is purchasing an airline ticket. There are different laws for each.

If the DOT came forth and said no airline is allowed to IDB a pax unless reason of safety, then he would have an argument.

Regardless, even if the cops were in the wrong, they gave him orders, he refused to follow them. That is a crime, you cannot deny that. After the fact if it is proven the airline or LEO was in the wrong, then you sort it out.
It is not at all clear if the cops were in the wrong it was unlawful to follow their orders. The cop being suspended already and the guy apparently not being arrested would indicate there is at least some doubt about this.
GadgetFreak is online now  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 11:43 pm
  #1901  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
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CNN just interviewed one of the guys who made the video....he described the man as empathic, which kinda runs opposite to what Oscar Munoz said about being 'disruptive and belligerent'.
FlyPointyEnd is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 11:43 pm
  #1902  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 144
Originally Posted by GadgetFreak
So supply and demand only works one way? It obviously didn't work or people would have taken it.
If you had to purchase tires for your car to get to work and they offered to sell it to you for $800, you wouldn't say "thats nice, but i'd rather pay you $1,500 instead because i'm nice and i want to help you out"

would you?

Neither would United. Normally its not a problem. They make decisions that are best for them and acceptable to their customers. They offer VDB's not only because they are required but because they are financially less burdensome on them than IDB's. They increment the VDB offer until the point it is no longer better financially for them then an IDB. When it reaches that point, if they still need volunteers, they do, as the CoC permits, an IDB.

its really as simple concept. Just so happens, on this one occasion, something unpredictable occurred and their total value was reduced.
c2cflyer is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 11:43 pm
  #1903  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Programs: United, AA
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by ND76
In looking at this whole situation, UA/Republic should have canceled the flight, and then rescheduled it under a new flight number.

Where UA/Republic is going to get hurt is when the plaintiff's attorneys take discovery and find that various United elites were not included in the "lottery" that led to the passenger being ejected. UA/Republic's explanation about this will be very interesting.

The plaintiff needs to sue UA/Republic in Kentucky; hopefully the plaintiff lives in a rural county outside Louisville. Punitive damages, here we come.
I don't know if a lottery system is requirement, but they said they booted him off because he paid the least. Still doesn't make it moral or right.
aerosexual is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 11:44 pm
  #1904  
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Dear Oscar,
Step away from the media.
Thank you.
24left is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 11:45 pm
  #1905  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,956
Originally Posted by Summa Cum Laude Touro Law Center
And that interpretation is WRONG WRONG WRONG. If United messes up their W&B calc for a plane with less than 60 seats and determimes after passengers have boarded (W&B is not based on the actual weight of the passengers) that boarded passengers need to be removed from the flight, United's authority under the CoC to do so is Rule 21(B), since flying a plane outside the permissible W&B envelope would violate gov't regulations.

EDIT: The irrelevant provision cited in Rule 25 concerning W&B does not serve as an additional basis for UA to deny boarding for passengers.
Now you are quoting my reply to another poster and not the similar (but different) one to you right after. I can understand your reasoning for not wanting to quote my reply to you.

Once again, you won't be honest and admit what your search found about "weight/balance" was incongruous with your position to the point of even chiding me about my statement (which was, in fact, correct). Instead, you decided to deflect with an irrelevant question.

You have been harping about when boarding occurs and I was giving you just one example of when a passenger could be denied boarding involuntarily after the door was initially closed for weight/balance restrictions and its characterization under the COC as constituting "an oversold flight".

And yet you now want to yell that my "interpretation is wrong" 3x.
ND Sol is offline  


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