Apr 10, 2017, 8:42 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
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CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
What facts do we know?
- UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
- After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
- United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
- After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
- One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
- The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
- After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
- United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”
United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017
Videos
- Passenger one row behind and on the aisle footage BEFORE man was dragged off https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=655_1492004707
- Videos of man being removed https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b7_1491983214 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nAZEk6nsNE
- Video of man re-entering plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNEQDWpYbZA (link dead)
Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
- On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
- We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
- He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
- Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
- Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Dear Team,
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
- Chicago Aviation Department said on the Monday afternoon after the incident that the officer who had dragged the passenger off the plane had been placed on leave pending an investigation. Spokesperson Karen Pride said in an email that "The incident on United flight 3411 was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by the Department."
- 4/12/17: Two more Chicago Aviation officers involved are suspended
- Muńoz does ABC interview, announcing United will no longer use law enforcement to remove passengers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90jSUe_vdhM
- United announces policy change that crews traveling on their aircraft must be booked at least 60 minutes prior to departure.
- United releases multiple changes in overbooking / denied boarding policies "We are making changes to ensure that we always put customers first" (http://newsroom.united.com/2017-04-2...mer-Experience) released 27 April 2017
- Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
- Response to Senate Commerce Committee questions - 1 May 2017
- United Airlines PR Boss to Step Down
- James Long, one of several officers involved in removing David Dao from the April 9, 2017, flight to make room for airline employees, filed suit on Tuesday against United, Chicago’s Department of Aviation and its commissioner, Ginger Evans. The lawsuit, filed in the circuit court of Cook County, Illinois, alleges he was not properly trained on how to use force.
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines
Poll link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/KP68GYG
Results link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
Reference MaterialResults link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.
If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspxIf your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}
Apr 10, 2017, 5:18 pm
#976
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 16,901
Still being crucified on the news tonight. The best they have to quote from UA is "we're on it". I'm sorry. Dragging someone who was appropriately boarded off the plane on his back is inexcusable. Period. I think $100K to make it go away is low and the cost to UA is incalculable. Huge mess. I like Oscar, but he has deeper problems than I realized.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 10, 2017 at 5:33 pm Reason: vulgarity removed
Apr 10, 2017, 5:18 pm
#977
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: BART Platinum, AA Plat Pro
Posts: 1,158
In this case neither happened, and now UA is reaping the rewards. I suspect the fact that it happened to UA first is less coincidence than culture.
Apr 10, 2017, 5:19 pm
#978
Join Date: Aug 2008
Programs: HHonors Gold, Marriott Lifetime Gold, IHG Gold, OZ*G, AA Gold, AS MVP
Posts: 1,874
The other difference is that other airlines offer more compensation. Like Delta. (Speaking of which they must be very glad that the heat has been taken off them for now).
Apr 10, 2017, 5:19 pm
#979
Join Date: May 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: AS; Hyatt Globalist; Hilton Gold; NEXUS
Posts: 977
UA is getting their punishment for this in the press. Argue all you want about whether UA or the passenger was in the right/wrong... this is a disaster for them.
I think FT's expectations for airline customer service are so low, that some of us are just numb to all of this. My workplace is abuzz about this and yet I'm not surprised in the least. This is exactly what I would have expected out of AA/DL/UA. I'm actually surprised he wasn't arrested, charged with a felony for being forcibly removed from the flight, and put on the national no-fly list. Mrs. sullim4 often wonders why I get so stressed when I fly... she apparently doesn't read enough FT.
I am no fan of FAA regulation but I think we are at a point where if you are on a plane, sitting in a seat with a boarding pass scanned as valid at the gate... that seat is yours unless you voluntarily give it up, or there's a weight/balance issue preventing the aircraft from leaving in which case you get IDB compensation. IDB otherwise should not even be in play.
I think FT's expectations for airline customer service are so low, that some of us are just numb to all of this. My workplace is abuzz about this and yet I'm not surprised in the least. This is exactly what I would have expected out of AA/DL/UA. I'm actually surprised he wasn't arrested, charged with a felony for being forcibly removed from the flight, and put on the national no-fly list. Mrs. sullim4 often wonders why I get so stressed when I fly... she apparently doesn't read enough FT.
I am no fan of FAA regulation but I think we are at a point where if you are on a plane, sitting in a seat with a boarding pass scanned as valid at the gate... that seat is yours unless you voluntarily give it up, or there's a weight/balance issue preventing the aircraft from leaving in which case you get IDB compensation. IDB otherwise should not even be in play.
Apr 10, 2017, 5:19 pm
#980
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 66
An aside to complain about my own employer, but as a federal civil servant, I'm never accepting a voluntary offer and will do all I can to avoid an IDB.
By policy, we must hand over any denial of boarding compensation to the govt, cant keep anything. And if we accept a voluntary denial, we are personally responsible for any additional travel costs and could in principle be forced to take a vacation day if the delay meant missing our scheduled time back in the office.
If involuntary, we are expected to request compensation only in the form of a check made out to "US Treasury", but if the airline won't comply with that payment method, we must get off the plane for free.
Which makes wonder if they prioritize CA and YCA fares for IDB-ing...
By policy, we must hand over any denial of boarding compensation to the govt, cant keep anything. And if we accept a voluntary denial, we are personally responsible for any additional travel costs and could in principle be forced to take a vacation day if the delay meant missing our scheduled time back in the office.
If involuntary, we are expected to request compensation only in the form of a check made out to "US Treasury", but if the airline won't comply with that payment method, we must get off the plane for free.
Which makes wonder if they prioritize CA and YCA fares for IDB-ing...
Apr 10, 2017, 5:19 pm
#981
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DMV
Posts: 2,092
It's the same principle as overtime at work. It's voluntary until there's not enough volunteers. At that point it becomes 'mandatory'. I guess I could always count on the sympathy of several posters here if I got fired for refusing to do it.
Apr 10, 2017, 5:19 pm
#982
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: MP
Posts: 224
People kept saying "overbooked", but from what I've read it did not seem like an overbooking issue. More like UA realized too late that they need to fly 4 crew members to operate a flight next day.
Then for people who says "he paid for the ticket", well the people who were going to fly the next day also paid for the ticket, are you going to deny them their tickets because 4 people wouldn't?
It's a question of denying 4 pax or a full plane worth, I would also choose the 4.
Although ORD-SDF is like only 5 hours away by road, I'm surprised no one takes the $800 and drive. The doctor could've just leave and drive.
(I'm also well aware that UA could also transport the crew by car, that's another option)
Then for people who says "he paid for the ticket", well the people who were going to fly the next day also paid for the ticket, are you going to deny them their tickets because 4 people wouldn't?
It's a question of denying 4 pax or a full plane worth, I would also choose the 4.
Although ORD-SDF is like only 5 hours away by road, I'm surprised no one takes the $800 and drive. The doctor could've just leave and drive.
(I'm also well aware that UA could also transport the crew by car, that's another option)
Apr 10, 2017, 5:19 pm
#983
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 575
Oh for sure, this should have been sorted out prior to boarding. I'm thinking the flight was full, then United Crew Sked needed to get an FA on the flight to work a flight at the destination (perhaps a last minute book-off or something), the gate agents may have missed the call or the note on the computer, they boarded the flight then when the FA did not board crew sked called the gate, yikes now we have a problem!!! we gotta deplane someone. Not making excuses but I'm thinking this was a situation that cropped up at the last minute, maybe even prior to door closing/push-back.
Actually, I'll recall in the PMUA days, they would often do the VDB before boarding started. But after the takeover, I've never once gotten my voucher until after they board and know for certain that I'm needed.
Apr 10, 2017, 5:20 pm
#984
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: AA Gold, Enterprise PLT, Marriott Gold
Posts: 604
Sigh, so many comments from people who haven't worked a day in their life as a gate agent.
United Dispatch could have very well called up at the last minute and said "We have 4 must-ride crew members that have to get on, you will have to pull off 4 people for them." Thusly why the gate agents may have had to take people off who boarded. The flight does not go til the crew is on... so they need to act fast to get the plane out.
They have specific protocol for who gets IDB. When you get IDB, you get compensated depending on how long you are delayed arriving home. If that pax was given reasonable accommodation within an hour or two, nothing is given, but after a time they get paid an actual check for their inconvenience. It's very possible that guy could get a $1400 dollar check a hotel and a flight out early the next day.
Not to mention it wasn;t United Employees dragging him out, it was security. When UA tells you that you have to get off, you have to get off. If they explained it many times like they claim, then he was refusing to obey instructions from an airline on their own aircraft. It is THEIR aircraft. Could security possibly handled it better? Sure, but they probably had been going around in circles with the guy who was refusing. Not to mention police gave him an order many times, he refused to listen. That's what happens in life when you refuse to obey police orders/
This is just another case of the general public who doesn't know crap about working for an airline or the rules of the airline, reacting. Is it an unfortunate scenario that could have been handled better by all sides? Yes. Still, people comment get outraged about stuff they have no true idea about.
United Dispatch could have very well called up at the last minute and said "We have 4 must-ride crew members that have to get on, you will have to pull off 4 people for them." Thusly why the gate agents may have had to take people off who boarded. The flight does not go til the crew is on... so they need to act fast to get the plane out.
They have specific protocol for who gets IDB. When you get IDB, you get compensated depending on how long you are delayed arriving home. If that pax was given reasonable accommodation within an hour or two, nothing is given, but after a time they get paid an actual check for their inconvenience. It's very possible that guy could get a $1400 dollar check a hotel and a flight out early the next day.
Not to mention it wasn;t United Employees dragging him out, it was security. When UA tells you that you have to get off, you have to get off. If they explained it many times like they claim, then he was refusing to obey instructions from an airline on their own aircraft. It is THEIR aircraft. Could security possibly handled it better? Sure, but they probably had been going around in circles with the guy who was refusing. Not to mention police gave him an order many times, he refused to listen. That's what happens in life when you refuse to obey police orders/
This is just another case of the general public who doesn't know crap about working for an airline or the rules of the airline, reacting. Is it an unfortunate scenario that could have been handled better by all sides? Yes. Still, people comment get outraged about stuff they have no true idea about.
Last edited by SpinOn2; Apr 10, 2017 at 5:40 pm
Apr 10, 2017, 5:20 pm
#985
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: HHonors Diamond, MileagePlus Silver, Executive National
Posts: 125
What if he is 'held off' the plane and then insists he needs to get on the plane and pushes past the GA? I mean technically it's the exact same issue, he'd have a paid ticket and a boarding pass. But people wouldn't side with him because someone trying to force their way *onto* an aircraft unsettles people. It's all about the optics and sounds of the video here.
I also guarantee you that if the pax in the video had applauded and there hadn't been 2 or 3 people voicing their upset about it, people would have by default sided with the airline and the story would focus on the 'erratic' passenger and wouldn't go very far.
Perception is reality.
I also guarantee you that if the pax in the video had applauded and there hadn't been 2 or 3 people voicing their upset about it, people would have by default sided with the airline and the story would focus on the 'erratic' passenger and wouldn't go very far.
Perception is reality.
Apr 10, 2017, 5:20 pm
#986
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SEA
Programs: DL DM, HH diamond
Posts: 330
Pretty much. Anyone who's travelled UA for hundreds of thousands of miles knows that a significant minority of UA employees have zero interest in solving problems in any remotely useful way, either because they don’t care to or they are not empowered to do so. Instead they would prefer to just continue to stonewall or escalate the situation until the customer either gives up or goes away.
In this case neither happened, and now UA is reaping the rewards. I suspect the fact that it happened to UA first is less coincidence than culture.
In this case neither happened, and now UA is reaping the rewards. I suspect the fact that it happened to UA first is less coincidence than culture.
Apr 10, 2017, 5:21 pm
#987
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
Programs: DL GM
Posts: 515
I asked this a while back in the thread but I'm still wondering why no one else on the aircraft thought to volunteer to IVDB (contradiction I know) in this man's place when it was clear he was a doctor trying to get to his patients. Or why the GA, upon learning he was a doctor, didn't appeal for volunteers a second time using this information.
I know no one volunteered the first time through, but I have to imagine appealing to the passengers a second time saying that one of the selected passengers was a physician headed to tend to patients would have done the trick. I'm sure it would have been a lot easier to do that BEFORE boarding the aircraft but still seems easier than calling up the cops.
I'm sure IVDBs are very tense for everyone involved but it is very clear that absolutely no one involved was right; crew, passenger or police (especially police). If even one of them took a minute to calmly assess the situation and apply a little common sense, I think this ends up like any one of the hundreds of other IVDBs on any given day.
I know no one volunteered the first time through, but I have to imagine appealing to the passengers a second time saying that one of the selected passengers was a physician headed to tend to patients would have done the trick. I'm sure it would have been a lot easier to do that BEFORE boarding the aircraft but still seems easier than calling up the cops.
I'm sure IVDBs are very tense for everyone involved but it is very clear that absolutely no one involved was right; crew, passenger or police (especially police). If even one of them took a minute to calmly assess the situation and apply a little common sense, I think this ends up like any one of the hundreds of other IVDBs on any given day.
Apr 10, 2017, 5:22 pm
#988
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: WN, AA, UA, DL
Posts: 1,313
Just ask any crew member if they've seen people pulled after they've "boarded". They'll tell you lots of stories.
Apr 10, 2017, 5:22 pm
#989
Join Date: May 2006
Location: MLB
Posts: 445
This all starts with UA mistakes and poor decisions, veers into a violation of passenger's legal (and human) rights, and ends with more poor decisions by UA and police personnel.
I'm curious - can the FAA intervene here and fine or take other action against UA? Honestly, a civil settlement isn't enough here, an example needs to be made of UA so no airline ever even thinks of something like this.
I'm curious - can the FAA intervene here and fine or take other action against UA? Honestly, a civil settlement isn't enough here, an example needs to be made of UA so no airline ever even thinks of something like this.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 10, 2017 at 5:35 pm Reason: Discuss the issues, not the poster
Apr 10, 2017, 5:22 pm
#990
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: LHR, HKG
Programs: gate lice
Posts: 315
Still being crucified on the news tonight. The best they have to quote from UA is "we're on it". I'm sorry. Dragging someone who was appropriately boarded off the plane on his back is inexcusable. Period. I think $100K to make it go away is low and the cost to UA is incalculable. Huge mess. I like Oscar, but he has deeper problems than I realized. OMG PR cluster F!!
Re-accommodating passengers? Seriously? That's the most he can give. Based on all the anecdotes about Oscar being a nice guy, I'd expect him to seek out a one-to-one mea culpa. But I guess he's all talk.
Re-accommodating.
