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Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}

Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}

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Old Apr 13, 18, 1:33 pm   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
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Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
DOT findings related to the UA3411 9 April 2017 IDB incident 12 May 2017

What facts do we know?
  • UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
  • After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
  • United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
  • After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
  • One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
  • The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
  • After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
  • United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”

United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017

Videos

Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,

Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.

As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.

I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.

Oscar

Summary of Flight 3411
  • On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
  • We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
  • He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
  • Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
  • Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Email sent to all employees at 2:08PM on Tuesday, April 11.
Dear Team,

The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.

I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.

It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.

I promise you we will do better.

Sincerely,

Oscar
Statement to customers - 27 April 2017
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.

Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.

For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?

It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.

Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.

That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.

We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.

We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.

While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.

I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.

Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."

Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.

We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.

With Great Gratitude,

Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Aftermath
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines
Poll link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/KP68GYG
Results link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
Reference Material

UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.

If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.

We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspx
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Old Apr 17, 17, 10:50 am
  #6091  
 
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Originally Posted by Silver Fox View Post
I think this thread has reached critical mass now and could easily be closed.

oh only needs about 2oo or more posts to set record.

But very easy not to click if found uninteresting

Thread is big because of repeating posts.
For example posts 6080 and 6083 seem to be the same minority opinion.

Last edited by desi; Apr 17, 17 at 10:59 am
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Old Apr 17, 17, 10:59 am
  #6092  
 
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Have there been other threads on FlyerTalk that hit 6,000 replies within 1 week?

Originally Posted by desi View Post
needs about 220 more posts to set record.
But very easy not to click if found ununteresting
Or even uninteresting.

Have there been other threads on FlyerTalk that hit 6,000 replies within 1 week?
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Old Apr 17, 17, 11:09 am
  #6093  
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Originally Posted by desi View Post
oh only needs about 2oo or more posts to set record.

But very easy not to click if found uninteresting

Thread is big because of repeating posts.
For example posts 6080 and 6083 seem to be the same minority opinion.
I think your keyboard is broken.
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Old Apr 17, 17, 11:17 am
  #6094  
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Originally Posted by Rdenney View Post
So, it's really simple: When they have filled up the seats, sell their overbook tickets without seat assignments as standby. "Dear passenger, we will sell you this ticket, but this is a full flight and we may not be able to accommodate you. Therefore, please wait for standby passengers to be cleared to received your seat assignment. If we are unable to clear you, we will rebook you on the next available flight." See? Now, it's voluntary, and it's transparent. I do not buy tickets for which I cannot get a seat assignment, because when I travel, I don't have flexibility. But if I'm looking for a cheap fare for vacation and do have flexibility, then I'll take that risk if the fare is cheap enough. Likewise, if I buy at the last minute, I realize that I will probably be flying standby, no matter how much I pay.
Well, in the case of this flight, 3411, this would not have worked. The flight was not oversold. So the ones that would have gotten your standby tickets are the 4 crew they were trying to get on the flight.
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Old Apr 17, 17, 12:10 pm
  #6095  
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Originally Posted by BF263533 View Post
Closing the thread now would be a strangely ironic unfitting end and somewhat of a parody to the United IDB situation. IDB thread was IDB'd, and de-boarded.
But we'd re-accommodate the discussion elsewhere, since there are now dozens of UA3411 threads all over Flyertalk. Each airline seems to have their own variant of the "it could happen here" thread, and OMNI and OMNI P/R have them... Probably Travelbuzz and who knows where else as well.

But this one is the MOAT. (Mother of all Threads.) It should be allowed to continue.
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Old Apr 17, 17, 12:21 pm
  #6096  
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QUESTION:

Does anyone know whether pilots are trained on their airline's CoC and more generally, basics of aviation law and regulations, including DOT rules for VDB and IDB?

What about GAs? I assume that they're certainly trained on their carrier's VDB and IDB procedures, but have they ever looked at the CoC or received and instruction about basic aviation law and regulations? Has anyone ever shown them, as part of their training, the actual DOT rules for VDBs and IDBs?

If the pilot or an airport ground service supervisor/manager has an aviation related degree, I assume that some course in aviation law would have been required.

Please keep the M O A T open.
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Old Apr 17, 17, 12:46 pm
  #6097  
 
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
QUESTION:

Does anyone know whether pilots are trained on their airline's CoC and more generally, basics of aviation law and regulations, including DOT rules for VDB and IDB?

What about GAs? I assume that they're certainly trained on their carrier's VDB and IDB procedures, but have they ever looked at the CoC or received and instruction about basic aviation law and regulations? Has anyone ever shown them, as part of their training, the actual DOT rules for VDBs and IDBs?

If the pilot or an airport ground service supervisor/manager has an aviation related degree, I assume that some course in aviation law would have been required.

Please keep the M O A T open.
I feel as if these policies, laws, and guidelines are discarded on U.S. carriers. Look at the FA funny and you'll get kicked off, all in the name of post-9/11 security.

MatthewLAX here was kicked off for taking a picture of his seat.

Remember the 66-year-old guy who got a flight diverted for being mad about a $12 blanket?
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Old Apr 17, 17, 12:57 pm
  #6098  
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Originally Posted by leungy18 View Post
I feel as if these policies, laws, and guidelines are discarded on U.S. carriers. Look at the FA funny and you'll get kicked off, all in the name of post-9/11 security.

MatthewLAX here was kicked off for taking a picture of his seat.

Remember the 66-year-old guy who got a flight diverted for being mad about a $12 blanket?
I'm not asking whether UA GAs and pilots foillow their CoC. I'm asking whether they're trained about it.
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Old Apr 17, 17, 1:00 pm
  #6099  
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Originally Posted by desi View Post
oh only needs about 2oo or more posts to set record.

But very easy not to click if found uninteresting

Thread is big because of repeating posts.
For example posts 6080 and 6083 seem to be the same minority opinion.
Which record? Forum specific our FT wide? And within a time period for the thread or total for the thread? Curious, thanks.
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Old Apr 17, 17, 1:37 pm
  #6100  
 
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Originally Posted by GadgetFreak View Post
Which record? Forum specific our FT wide? And within a time period for the thread or total for the thread? Curious, thanks.
What I gather from comments that have been made in the thread is, the thread record for the UA thread is 6300 posts. I don't know what the record for fastest 6000 posts is, but I would guess that for UA, and maybe for all of flyertalk, it's likely this one. The incident happened on April 9.
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Old Apr 17, 17, 1:45 pm
  #6101  
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There are OMNI threads with hundreds of thousands of posts. (Games threads, mainly.)

For legitimate travel-related news, this one might have fastest-to-5000, plus a crazy-high view count to go with it.

Probably not a record though.
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Old Apr 17, 17, 1:52 pm
  #6102  
 
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Originally Posted by s0ssos View Post
The problem is your thought process about tickets does not work in the US, because first off, the change fee is so high many tickets are worthless. Second, WN is in the US. Define for me non-refundable with WN in the picture

The change fee on UA is $200 domestic, $400 international. I don't do many short hops, but even so, I can't recall the last time I bought a domestic or international ticket that cheap. If I cancel a $500 domestic ticket, I get to keep $300. On a $3000 international ticket, I get to keep $2600. On a European carrier, I am out $500 and $3000, respectively. And sure, WN does not have that policy. But that is peculiar to WN. AA and DL are similar to UA.
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Old Apr 17, 17, 1:58 pm
  #6103  
 
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Originally Posted by CDTraveler View Post
I doubt that the FA's will become reluctant to call for help with a clearly out of control passenger, in part because when someone is out of control the other pax probably want the troublemaker off the plane just as much as crew do. I was on an AA flight last summer where there was a woman clearly under the influence of some controlled substance (she reeked of booze) all through boarding she was screaming at the crew, blocking the aisle, etc. Finally the Captain asked her to leave, then she buckled herself in. A few minutes later LEO's came on board and eventually had to carry her off the plane. Then the rest of pax applauded. Any video taken of that incident would show a screaming, belligerent pax with whom the crew made multiple attempts to calm down before they escalated and multiple attempts by the LEO's to persuade her to leave on her own 2 feet before they physically removed her. She was put into a squad car on the tarmac after being taken off the plane.

Not every forced removal is comparable to what happened in this case.
No, but the incentives are currently aligned so that they don't get rewarded for making the right decision, but can be hugely punished for making the wrong decision. I think that means they will try to avoid making any decision.
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Old Apr 17, 17, 2:06 pm
  #6104  
 
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Originally Posted by pinniped View Post
There are OMNI threads with hundreds of thousands of posts. (Games threads, mainly.)

For legitimate travel-related news, this one might have fastest-to-5000, plus a crazy-high view count to go with it.

Probably not a record though.
Rapidly approaching #1 for replies in this forum
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Old Apr 17, 17, 2:15 pm
  #6105  
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Originally Posted by pinniped View Post
There are OMNI threads with hundreds of thousands of posts. (Games threads, mainly.)

For legitimate travel-related news, this one might have fastest-to-5000, plus a crazy-high view count to go with it.

Probably not a record though.
Without attempting to research this, I would guess that there have been a couple very long mistake fare threads (mostly in the MR--discussion subforum), but these tend to get lots of posts quickly very early, have relatively inactive periods starting sometime after the fare is pulled, and then generate more posts near the time of the flights or when the airline tries to cancel them all.

Several years ago, there was a very long and fast paced thread in the DL forum when the MQD requirements were announced.
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