Apr 10, 2017, 8:42 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
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CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
What facts do we know?
- UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
- After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
- United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
- After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
- One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
- The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
- After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
- United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”
United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017
Videos
- Passenger one row behind and on the aisle footage BEFORE man was dragged off https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=655_1492004707
- Videos of man being removed https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b7_1491983214 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nAZEk6nsNE
- Video of man re-entering plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNEQDWpYbZA (link dead)
Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
- On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
- We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
- He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
- Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
- Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Dear Team,
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
- Chicago Aviation Department said on the Monday afternoon after the incident that the officer who had dragged the passenger off the plane had been placed on leave pending an investigation. Spokesperson Karen Pride said in an email that "The incident on United flight 3411 was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by the Department."
- 4/12/17: Two more Chicago Aviation officers involved are suspended
- Muńoz does ABC interview, announcing United will no longer use law enforcement to remove passengers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90jSUe_vdhM
- United announces policy change that crews traveling on their aircraft must be booked at least 60 minutes prior to departure.
- United releases multiple changes in overbooking / denied boarding policies "We are making changes to ensure that we always put customers first" (http://newsroom.united.com/2017-04-2...mer-Experience) released 27 April 2017
- Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
- Response to Senate Commerce Committee questions - 1 May 2017
- United Airlines PR Boss to Step Down
- James Long, one of several officers involved in removing David Dao from the April 9, 2017, flight to make room for airline employees, filed suit on Tuesday against United, Chicago’s Department of Aviation and its commissioner, Ginger Evans. The lawsuit, filed in the circuit court of Cook County, Illinois, alleges he was not properly trained on how to use force.
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines
Poll link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/KP68GYG
Results link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
Reference MaterialResults link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.
If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspxIf your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}
Apr 11, 2017, 11:02 pm
#3796
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: AA ex-EXP, 2MM (ex DL, ex TWA)
Posts: 1,427
Who would have believed it?
United compared unfavourably to ULCC Ryanair - entire Guardian article devoted to how United can learn from them. Quote from the end: '“Unlike other airlines,” head of communications Robin Kiely tells me, “Ryanair does not overbook flights.”'
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nited-airlines
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nited-airlines
Apr 11, 2017, 11:03 pm
#3797
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 110
I know that I have never had a choice of Dr for most scenarios. Maybe my family Dr but if I get assigned a specialist I don't google him/her. When I was on a HMO I got whoever showed up and never questioned it.
There really is no such thing as an unemployed Dr. I always joked you could be the worst in medical school and you would still be treated/paid the same.
I did NOT know you could be a convicted felon and still practice medicine so maybe I will start googling my Drs now...
I'm kind of torn whether I feel bad for the guy as others pointed out he was just trying to get home but on the other hand he was convicted of 11 felonies for trading drugs for sex and no one made him do it.
I know I wouldn't want him, my wife or my daughter to be his patient (and pretty outraged this is possible) but maybe that's just me being weird.
There really is no such thing as an unemployed Dr. I always joked you could be the worst in medical school and you would still be treated/paid the same.
I did NOT know you could be a convicted felon and still practice medicine so maybe I will start googling my Drs now...
I'm kind of torn whether I feel bad for the guy as others pointed out he was just trying to get home but on the other hand he was convicted of 11 felonies for trading drugs for sex and no one made him do it.
I know I wouldn't want him, my wife or my daughter to be his patient (and pretty outraged this is possible) but maybe that's just me being weird.
Apr 11, 2017, 11:03 pm
#3798
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: SEA
Programs: NZ Elite (*G)
Posts: 657
United compared unfavourably to ULCC Ryanair - entire Guardian article devoted to how United can learn from them. Quote from the end: '“Unlike other airlines,” head of communications Robin Kiely tells me, “Ryanair does not overbook flights.”'
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nited-airlines
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nited-airlines
Apr 11, 2017, 11:04 pm
#3799
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Brunei
Programs: Enrich Sapphire. Kris Flyer Silver.Le Club Accorhotels,Starwood.
Posts: 2,201
Of course they're rightfully getting skewered for it, they deserve every ounce of it too. Realistically though, doing the bare minimum is how US airlines operate so is anyone really shocked? These airlines won't ever change, and won't ever have a reason to change, until either the federal government changes the laws or people vote with their wallets.
As big a game as boycott United people are talking, I just can't imagine anything will change. If United is even $15 less on a route than their competition, most people will jump at it. Perhaps that is the cynic in me, but I just don't see any change happening.
The bolded statements are where I think we differ. You're making the assumption that the gate agent was an incompetent fool incapable of using rational thought or common sense. I believe the gate agent was acting exactly like he/she was told to act.
This incident, and United's statements after the fact, make it abundantly clear to me that they have very strict policies in place and do not give their employees leeway to improvise with the company's money.
This is a philosophy problem with United, from the top down, not a problem with a rogue GA having a bad day and looking to screw people. If I had to guess, this is what happened:
- GA was told just after boarding to make room for four crew members
- GA asked for volunteers as usual, going up to a VDB voucher amount that the computer told her was the max for this flight
- When no volunteers stepped forward, GA moved on with the IDB process as trained to do
- Computer spit out the 4 lowest fares to be IDBed, likely to receive the same $800 if not less
- When a passenger didn't comply, GA had him removed exactly as trained to do
Again, perhaps that is me being cynical about UA as a company, but I don't believe for a second this GA just went rogue. She did what she was told, which is why Munoz went through so much effort to have his/her back.
As big a game as boycott United people are talking, I just can't imagine anything will change. If United is even $15 less on a route than their competition, most people will jump at it. Perhaps that is the cynic in me, but I just don't see any change happening.
The bolded statements are where I think we differ. You're making the assumption that the gate agent was an incompetent fool incapable of using rational thought or common sense. I believe the gate agent was acting exactly like he/she was told to act.
This incident, and United's statements after the fact, make it abundantly clear to me that they have very strict policies in place and do not give their employees leeway to improvise with the company's money.
This is a philosophy problem with United, from the top down, not a problem with a rogue GA having a bad day and looking to screw people. If I had to guess, this is what happened:
- GA was told just after boarding to make room for four crew members
- GA asked for volunteers as usual, going up to a VDB voucher amount that the computer told her was the max for this flight
- When no volunteers stepped forward, GA moved on with the IDB process as trained to do
- Computer spit out the 4 lowest fares to be IDBed, likely to receive the same $800 if not less
- When a passenger didn't comply, GA had him removed exactly as trained to do
Again, perhaps that is me being cynical about UA as a company, but I don't believe for a second this GA just went rogue. She did what she was told, which is why Munoz went through so much effort to have his/her back.
I would suggest the GA should have referred back to Flight Ops and informed them passengers had already boarded and seated and aircraft was already ready for doors to be close and for push back.
To remove 4 passengers would delay the flight so what is option B?
Granted, there is maybe no room to maneouver for the GA in this instance due to company policy, but GA should have updated Flight Ops passenger refuses to be offloaded as he is a 68 yr old doctor who claims to have patients to attend to the following morning and waited for further instructions.
Flight ops have a lot to answer for this...thus far, we have heard nothing about their involvement in this.
Apr 11, 2017, 11:07 pm
#3800
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Brunei
Programs: Enrich Sapphire. Kris Flyer Silver.Le Club Accorhotels,Starwood.
Posts: 2,201
United compared unfavourably to ULCC Ryanair - entire Guardian article devoted to how United can learn from them. Quote from the end: '“Unlike other airlines,” head of communications Robin Kiely tells me, “Ryanair does not overbook flights.”'
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nited-airlines
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nited-airlines
I know people who have had horrible experiences with them and compare them to the worst american airliners around.
A good example I would use would be how Air Asia operate. Granted they are a budget airline but there are NO problems with overbooking.
You can purchase tickets online up to 3 hours before a flight or at the sales counter at the airport up to 60 minutes before a flight and seats are confirmed.
If they can get away without problems, why is UA having these sorts of problems in the first place?
Apr 11, 2017, 11:09 pm
#3801
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SDF
Programs: -=- UA: GS + 3.9 Million Miler; Hilton: Diamond; Marriott: Gold; Hertz: President's Circle
Posts: 676
I still can't get past the part where the Dr didn't comply when 3 cops came on the plane. When he physically refused, what did he expect the cops to do - let him stay in the plane? If he had been smart, he would have argued his case then complied when it the cops were called.
UA has egg on their face but I really hate it when some stupid customer results in companies getting their reputation smeared because they were having to deal with someone acting like a fool. Had he walked off like 99.999% of the population, the issue could have been resolved in without escalation. The Dr is the one whose action caused escalation. The cop, not UA, is the one who went overboard on how they dealt with the removal.
UA has egg on their face but I really hate it when some stupid customer results in companies getting their reputation smeared because they were having to deal with someone acting like a fool. Had he walked off like 99.999% of the population, the issue could have been resolved in without escalation. The Dr is the one whose action caused escalation. The cop, not UA, is the one who went overboard on how they dealt with the removal.
Apr 11, 2017, 11:16 pm
#3802
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: Ice Cream Club, AC SE MM, Bonvoy Life Plat
Posts: 2,803
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
"we take full responsibility" is not the same as "we take full responsibility for the mistreatment of pax". Later in the release, he enumerates the areas where United is likely responsible as follows:- a thorough review of crew movement
- our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations
- how we handle oversold situations and
- an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement
Apr 11, 2017, 11:17 pm
#3803
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 110
I have to agree here for the most part. It becomes a power struggle that you will not win whenever you defy a cop's orders.
I think even if someone volunteered (which of all the critical passengers complaining about the treatment of the guy did NOT do) and said "hey don't beat that guy down take my seat" they would not do it. The guy refused an order from a cop and the resulting guarantee is he would get roughed up.
Clearly it is pointless as once you are asked to leave there is zero chance for authorities to cave to your desire to stay put as cops are trained NOT to cave to perps.
I think even if someone volunteered (which of all the critical passengers complaining about the treatment of the guy did NOT do) and said "hey don't beat that guy down take my seat" they would not do it. The guy refused an order from a cop and the resulting guarantee is he would get roughed up.
Clearly it is pointless as once you are asked to leave there is zero chance for authorities to cave to your desire to stay put as cops are trained NOT to cave to perps.
I still can't get past the part where the Dr didn't comply when 3 cops came on the plane. When he physically refused, what did he expect the cops to do - let him stay in the plane? If he had been smart, he would have argued his case then complied when it the cops were called.
UA has egg on their face but I really hate it when some stupid customer results in companies getting their reputation smeared because they were having to deal with someone acting like a fool. Had he walked off like 99.999% of the population, the issue could have been resolved in without escalation. The Dr is the one whose action caused escalation. The cop, not UA, is the one who went overboard on how they dealt with the removal.
UA has egg on their face but I really hate it when some stupid customer results in companies getting their reputation smeared because they were having to deal with someone acting like a fool. Had he walked off like 99.999% of the population, the issue could have been resolved in without escalation. The Dr is the one whose action caused escalation. The cop, not UA, is the one who went overboard on how they dealt with the removal.
Apr 11, 2017, 11:18 pm
#3804
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Brunei
Programs: Enrich Sapphire. Kris Flyer Silver.Le Club Accorhotels,Starwood.
Posts: 2,201
I still can't get past the part where the Dr didn't comply when 3 cops came on the plane. When he physically refused, what did he expect the cops to do - let him stay in the plane? If he had been smart, he would have argued his case then complied when it the cops were called.
UA has egg on their face but I really hate it when some stupid customer results in companies getting their reputation smeared because they were having to deal with someone acting like a fool. Had he walked off like 99.999% of the population, the issue could have been resolved in without escalation. The Dr is the one whose action caused escalation. The cop, not UA, is the one who went overboard on how they dealt with the removal.
UA has egg on their face but I really hate it when some stupid customer results in companies getting their reputation smeared because they were having to deal with someone acting like a fool. Had he walked off like 99.999% of the population, the issue could have been resolved in without escalation. The Dr is the one whose action caused escalation. The cop, not UA, is the one who went overboard on how they dealt with the removal.
I think you are missing the big picture here and also have slightly different values as a passenger and customer.
You say people like this should not taint companies like this with their actions.
Who's mess was this to begin with~? The passengers' or the airline having to suddenly realize they needed to rush 4 crew members to a destination:
a) they had no flights flying to till the following day at 2.30pm
b) there was an alternative airline flying an hour later to that very same destination with whom they could have checked with to see if they could take their 4 crew members on
You should direct your questions to UA's flight ops and the person making the decisions at the airport and directing the GA's to do what they did.
Don't take it out on the passenger.
Apr 11, 2017, 11:20 pm
#3805
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 599
Did you even see the manner in which things escalated? It was on the cops to not immediately jump to 11 and to not jump straight to physical removal. If it were done more gracefully, even if it did become physical still in the end I'm sure others on the plane would have been more supportive of United and this wouldn't have become what it has today.
I still can't get past the part where the Dr didn't comply when 3 cops came on the plane. When he physically refused, what did he expect the cops to do - let him stay in the plane? If he had been smart, he would have argued his case then complied when it the cops were called.
UA has egg on their face but I really hate it when some stupid customer results in companies getting their reputation smeared because they were having to deal with someone acting like a fool. Had he walked off like 99.999% of the population, the issue could have been resolved in without escalation. The Dr is the one whose action caused escalation. The cop, not UA, is the one who went overboard on how they dealt with the removal.
UA has egg on their face but I really hate it when some stupid customer results in companies getting their reputation smeared because they were having to deal with someone acting like a fool. Had he walked off like 99.999% of the population, the issue could have been resolved in without escalation. The Dr is the one whose action caused escalation. The cop, not UA, is the one who went overboard on how they dealt with the removal.
Apr 11, 2017, 11:22 pm
#3806
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: AA ex-EXP, 2MM (ex DL, ex TWA)
Posts: 1,427
This is not the case:
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
"we take full responsibility" is not the same as "we take full responsibility for the mistreatment of pax". Later in the release, he enumerates the areas where United is likely responsible as follows:- a thorough review of crew movement
- our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations
- how we handle oversold situations and
- an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement
“No one should ever be mistreated this way,” Oscar Munoz, the company’s chief executive, said in a statement.
"on Tuesday afternoon, the airline changed course again, with Mr. Munoz saying that United would take “full responsibility” for the situation."
I can put 2 + 2 together and come up with 4.
Apr 11, 2017, 11:22 pm
#3807
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: Ice Cream Club, AC SE MM, Bonvoy Life Plat
Posts: 2,803
However, not all pax have this level of comprehension, and the stress of being bumped clearly caused this pax to act in a manner that further resulted in unfortunate outcomes.
Cop asks you to get out of your car on suspicion it is stolen, you get out. You go to jail. Judge decides what is right or wrong. Staying in car might get you shot. I'm glad I don't drive. =)
Apr 11, 2017, 11:25 pm
#3808
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: Ice Cream Club, AC SE MM, Bonvoy Life Plat
Posts: 2,803
Quotes from NYT article:
“No one should ever be mistreated this way,” Oscar Munoz, the company’s chief executive, said in a statement.
"on Tuesday afternoon, the airline changed course again, with Mr. Munoz saying that United would take “full responsibility” for the situation."
I can put 2 + 2 together and come up with 4.
“No one should ever be mistreated this way,” Oscar Munoz, the company’s chief executive, said in a statement.
"on Tuesday afternoon, the airline changed course again, with Mr. Munoz saying that United would take “full responsibility” for the situation."
I can put 2 + 2 together and come up with 4.
It appears NYT may have chopped the actual quote a bit?
Apr 11, 2017, 11:25 pm
#3809
Join Date: May 2007
Location: LAS
Programs: Delta Gold Medallion
Posts: 258
Oscar's latest lettter ancknowledges this as it states UA corporate is reviewing procedures and will announce their findngs and possible changes on April 30 so it hopefully never happens again.
Apr 11, 2017, 11:29 pm
#3810
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
Programs: DL GM
Posts: 515
Very fair comment and argument.
I would suggest the GA should have referred back to Flight Ops and informed them passengers had already boarded and seated and aircraft was already ready for doors to be close and for push back.
To remove 4 passengers would delay the flight so what is option B?
Granted, there is maybe no room to maneouver for the GA in this instance due to company policy, but GA should have updated Flight Ops passenger refuses to be offloaded as he is a 68 yr old doctor who claims to have patients to attend to the following morning and waited for further instructions.
Flight ops have a lot to answer for this...thus far, we have heard nothing about their involvement in this.
I would suggest the GA should have referred back to Flight Ops and informed them passengers had already boarded and seated and aircraft was already ready for doors to be close and for push back.
To remove 4 passengers would delay the flight so what is option B?
Granted, there is maybe no room to maneouver for the GA in this instance due to company policy, but GA should have updated Flight Ops passenger refuses to be offloaded as he is a 68 yr old doctor who claims to have patients to attend to the following morning and waited for further instructions.
Flight ops have a lot to answer for this...thus far, we have heard nothing about their involvement in this.
The GA is just the messenger, once the man objected, the tension for everyone probably just boiled over and you end up with this nightmare. Couldn't pay me enough to deliver that message.
I really don't think there was an option B here. I can't imagine flight ops would force four crew aboard this aircraft at the cost of 4 IDBs and a delay if it could have been avoided. I'm guessing this was the only possible option to get a qualified deadhead crew to Louisville in time to serve their mandatory rest period prior to the next morning's scheduled departure. Whether these crew were needed due to weather/mechanical delays or because someone screwed up the schedule we may never know. Ultimately, I don't think why the crew had to be on the plane is relevant, just that they did have to be and IDBs were the unfortunate result. It all went downhill from there.