UASleeper

Somehow I would have liked Polaris to win but Delta's suite-style pod with door seems to be indeed a step ahead. The catch up game continues...

https://mobile.twitter.com/HAM_aviat...try-award.html

jeedk

So you'll take a connection flight and/or reduce your upgrade chances and/or potentially pay a sizable premium for .... a door ?

EWR764

I don't think there's any doubt that Delta's D1 suite (with door) is a higher evolution of J hard product than United's Polaris.

The tradeoff is fewer seats in comparable cabins and a smaller fleet of so-equipped airplanes (at ultimate fit-out).

UASleeper

I agree and that's why I wish United could catch a break. However, a higher upgrade availability does not seem to have gotten any extra points by the judges in the best C cabin design award category....

jeedk

Maybe the Qatar Q Suite is too new to be judged, but that's hands down the best J globally, even beating the DL one.

i've flown a variant of the DL seat sans the door in the form of SAS / SK. While it is nice, the new BE SuperDiamond used by AC AA CI and others are superior in terms of seat comfort, storage, and TV screen (which I've also sampled). I haven't tried 77W Polaris so I can't objectively comment on it.

And honestly, the LX 77W "throne" seat, which I'm flying very soon, offers far more personal space than the DL Suite.

So DL's uniqueness is really just that - a door.

Darlox

That's a bit over-simplified, wouldn't you say? Most of America has to take a connection through an Int'l gateway, so whether it's a UA one or a DL one doesn't affect probably 80%+ of travelers, overall. Since I fly both UA and DL frequently, upgrade opportunities have been, in my experience, about equal on both lately -- which is to say, largely nonexistant except for very off-peak midweek flights.

... and, it's anecdotal, but virtually every Int'l UA flight I have quoted out this year has been the same or more expensive than the DL equivalent, for paid-J. Sooooo... (And if you're looking at buying Y and upgrading, for comparable "upgradeable fares", DL's K has generally been considerably less expensive than UA's W, but upgrade-bucket availability on both has been complete crap.)

I wish the early opinions of the Polaris seats in the 773 were better. I haven't had the opportunity to personally fly it yet, but while it seems like it's a big step up for UA, as one used to flying Int'l carriers, the DL seat is a lot more competitive globally for Int'l travel. *shrug*

qukslvr619

While I don't disagree that at least from outward appearances the DL One seat would have an advantage over UA's Polaris seat, DL has yet to install it and not sure they even have shown a prototype (other than it seems like they did at the Expo).

The suite with a door concept is nice...but let's be honest the bulk of their fleet is still going to be 767s which probably won't see this seat and other than being installed on A350s as they are delivered, DL hasn't published a timeline for retrofit for A330s or 777s.

I guess what I am getting at is that people can sit and dog UA on installing a high-density configuration and that the DL One suite (with door!) is superior, UA will probably have Polaris retrofitted on the majority of their aircraft before DL has the DL One suite (with door!) on even 1/4 of their fleet.

wrp96

With the delays at Zodiac for the Polaris seat, I wouldn't necessarily take that bet, especially since the first planes with the new DL seat are already in fit out stage at TLS. UA isn't that far ahead on getting the Polaris seat in use.

Duke787

I think the D1 seat will eventually be better (I like the Vantage XL seat and the sliding door concept - B6 Mint Throne seat with door is the closest thing out there - though not a perfect match - and I'm a big fan of that) but I find this exercise a bit ridiculous considering the DL seat hasn't been installed and isn't flying anywhere.

At least Polaris is in revenue use even if there have been production delays preventing more widespread deployment.

Austin787

United is promoting Polaris as a package - lounges, food, bedding materials, amenities, etc. It will be available on all long haul business flights regardless of seat.

Will be interesting to see how Delta manages customer expectations. Someone booking Delta One expecting a suite will be disappointed to fly on an aircraft which doesn't have the suite.

qukslvr619

Well DL's official line was this:
"Following the A350 debut, the Delta One suite will progressively roll out on Delta’s Boeing 777 fleet."

So yes the delays are a setback but UA should end up with more Polaris configured aircraft flying around before DL even begins installation on the 777 fleet (which if they have set a timeline I haven't seen it).

I predict UA will face a 6-month backlog....but I have enough confidence in the Oscar regime to come up with an alternate solution otherwise. All they need to do is look at the Larry/Jeff show that happened with the BF lie-flat.....rather than begin retrofitting the BF lie-flats into exisiting fleet, CO kept waiting for the big 787 debut.....well 2007 came and went....2008 came...it wasn't until they realized the 787 isn't coming anytime soon that they finally begin to install them on 777s in 2009.

https://buyingbusinesstravel.com/new...lie-flat-seats

Darlox

... as opposed to someone booking United Polaris and flying out of a hub without a Polaris lounge in a 2-4-2 J config?

br2k

Cubicles

spin88

{E}verything you say is true.

(1) most fliers have a choice of carriers, and on overseas flights, even fliers at another airlines hubs have options. Flying ex-SFO, UA often has a N/S, but for better product, arrival times, or better J pricing, I'll easily take a connection on OALs.
(2) Upgrade chances are bad on both DL and UA. The only difference is that you can buy the lowest Y fare and take your chances on DL, or you can pay for a W on UA (extra $500-700) and take your chances. YYMV
(3) Because UA has so many deep discount (40+%) corporate discounts, they are forced to keep their rack prices higher, which makes them uncompetitive for those w/o a corporate discount. As an example, an ex-GF of mine works for a major multi-national. She can fly J on any airline and they have a corporate deal with UA that is about 40% of D/C, and she says about 20% off P. They also have a corporate deal with Delta (which also includes AF/KLM) but it is less than 30% off Business, and only 10% off discount business. But in the end, the pricing ends up similar.
(4) The very tight "Polaris" seat is just Mehh. Much better than what it is replacing, but not better than last generation seats like the cirrus. The Vantage XL+ (w/ or w/o a door) is a much bigger, better seat.

The base seat - the Vintage XL+ is off the rack, and very very well received. Delta knows exactly what it is getting, and its a better seat than what United has. But the big difference is that the Vintage XL+ is going into all of Delta's ULR planes (the 777s and new A350s). So the folks who need the better seat get it. And their current seats are much better than what UA has - fleet wide.

Come talk to me about how great United is when they put competitive seats onto the very large fleet of 787s, all of which fly long distance and have short, narrow, last gen CO seats.

jeedk

If their seat is "a lot more competitive", please explain why among UA AA DL, they'll be installing the LEAST amount of seats among the 359-sized planes ? Unless you're implying that only DL sells them for cash while their 2 competitors dole them out like candies.