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Is United quoting wrong reasons for delay? How is the reason determined?

Is United quoting wrong reasons for delay? How is the reason determined?

Old Apr 16, 2014, 2:48 pm
  #46  
 
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How do you make sense of this excuse although the plane departed a few minutes before the scheduled time? Not enough padding time (21 min on air with 51 min scheduled time)? I do not think so. It is a short hop from Richmond to IAD.

Arrived Gate 5 Minutes Late (Delayed - Late inbound crew)

Scheduled Time: 10:49 a.m.
Scheduled Date: Wed., Apr. 16, 2014
Actual Time: 10:41 a.m.
Actual Date: Wed., Apr. 16, 2014
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 3:13 pm
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Kmxu
How do you make sense of this excuse although the plane departed a few minutes before the scheduled time?
Crew failed to arrive at the airport in advance as far as they were supposed to. So the system tags this as a delay cause, even if they manage to make up that time and still push back on time. Not malevolent, just automated.
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 5:15 pm
  #48  
 
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Originally Posted by Kmxu
How do you make sense of this excuse although the plane departed a few minutes before the scheduled time? Not enough padding time (21 min on air with 51 min scheduled time)? I do not think so. It is a short hop from Richmond to IAD.

Arrived Gate 5 Minutes Late (Delayed - Late inbound crew)

Scheduled Time: 10:49 a.m.
Scheduled Date: Wed., Apr. 16, 2014
Actual Time: 10:41 a.m.
Actual Date: Wed., Apr. 16, 2014
Error. Nothing automated, nothing to do w/when crew checked in. It's possible the outbound controller quoted a delay when one didn't exist.
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 9:12 pm
  #49  
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Originally Posted by mduell
Not true; there's no requirement to leave the gate to hold your slot in the GDP. You only have to be ready for takeoff at your EDCT.
correct, and the reason that pilots like to leave the gate is that ATC situations are typically fluid and often clearance for takeoff is given earlier than the originally estimated time. had this just last week going into LGA, they told us 45 mins and we were wheels up in just over 30.
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Old Apr 28, 2014, 3:28 pm
  #50  
 
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EWR-PIT last night. The departure was delayed for 10 mins due to gate change. The reason? Weather!
Despite the fact weather in EWR, PIT were both fine and our flight was really smooth (so I assume good weather in between).
The crew arrived at the gate on time, so no late crew due to weather problem.
The Q400 was sitting in EWR for more than 6 hours.
The only reason I can think about is that the previous flight at the original gate was cancelled (for reason I do not know). May be that one was cancelled due to weather. So of course our gate change related delay is because of weather.
Anyway the flight was further delayed due to the EWR runway construction.
Honestly, I am not bothered by the delay itself by any bit but using "Weather" as the excuse....
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Old Apr 28, 2014, 4:02 pm
  #51  
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UA 3489 - Cancelled Yesterday

Yesterday, UA 3489 was cancelled 12 hours in advance. The reason "high winds in EWR." This was told to me by United on Twitter

It's hard for me to believe that reasoning so early on. The flight was scheduled for 8:20 p.m., but the 5:24, 6:26, 7:50 and 10 p.m. flights were not cancelled.

I rebooked on the 5:24 p.m. When I arrived at the gate, I inquired about the 8:20 cancellation. She told me weather, but said "hey I'm just the messenger." She also didn't believe it.

So my question for the group...ever have a flight cancelled and you just don't agree with the reasoning?
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Old Apr 28, 2014, 4:07 pm
  #52  
 
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Booking on an RJ is a cancellation or mis-connect waiting to happen!
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Old Apr 28, 2014, 4:10 pm
  #53  
 
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Originally Posted by TimeToEarnMiles
Yesterday, UA 3489 was cancelled 12 hours in advance. The reason "high winds in EWR." This was told to me by United on Twitter

It's hard for me to believe that reasoning so early on. The flight was scheduled for 8:20 p.m., but the 5:24, 6:26, 7:50 and 10 p.m. flights were not cancelled.

I rebooked on the 5:24 p.m. When I arrived at the gate, I inquired about the 8:20 cancellation. She told me weather, but said "hey I'm just the messenger." She also didn't believe it.

So my question for the group...ever have a flight cancelled and you just don't agree with the reasoning?
I think it was cancelled because of the current evening delays into and out of EWR because of one runway being refurbished. I'm guessing they figured they could accommodate all the passengers on the earlier and later flights out ORD.
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Old Apr 28, 2014, 7:02 pm
  #54  
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Originally Posted by TimeToEarnMiles
Yesterday, UA 3489 was cancelled 12 hours in advance. The reason "high winds in EWR." This was told to me by United on Twitter

It's hard for me to believe that reasoning so early on. The flight was scheduled for 8:20 p.m., but the 5:24, 6:26, 7:50 and 10 p.m. flights were not cancelled.

I rebooked on the 5:24 p.m. When I arrived at the gate, I inquired about the 8:20 cancellation. She told me weather, but said "hey I'm just the messenger." She also didn't believe it.

So my question for the group...ever have a flight cancelled and you just don't agree with the reasoning?
This topic comes up every few months from people generally not familiar with air traffic management. You can choose to disagree, but it easily passes the smell test.

Consider:
- EWR has runway construction going on, taking one of the big runways out of service.
- The winds yesterday were crosswinds for the remaining big runway and gusting into the 20s.
- The winds may have put LGA or JFK in configurations that are not favorable to EWR.

That adds up to delay programs for EWR, and the FAA and UAL knew they were coming in the morning; the 5:15a ET operations plan included "AFTER [1p ET] -EWR GROUND DELAY PROGRAM EXPECTED". Sure enough, the first delay program for EWR was proposed at 7:40a ET and finalized at 8a ET to begin metering operations at 26 per hour starting at 11a. Lots of cancellations were done by the airlines to mitigate delays and get through the day.

KEWR delays and cancellations by scheduled departure hour (ET) on Sunday:
Code:
        hour         | delays | cancellations 
---------------------+--------+---------------
 2014-04-27 06:00:00 | 4%     | 0%
 2014-04-27 07:00:00 | 5%     | 0%
 2014-04-27 08:00:00 | 10%    | 0%
 2014-04-27 09:00:00 | 19%    | 3%
 2014-04-27 10:00:00 | 13%    | 9%
 2014-04-27 11:00:00 | 5%     | 0%
 2014-04-27 12:00:00 | 15%    | 23%
 2014-04-27 13:00:00 | 52%    | 19%
 2014-04-27 14:00:00 | 44%    | 20%
 2014-04-27 15:00:00 | 52%    | 23%
 2014-04-27 16:00:00 | 29%    | 19%
 2014-04-27 17:00:00 | 49%    | 8%
 2014-04-27 18:00:00 | 73%    | 3%
 2014-04-27 19:00:00 | 64%    | 17%
 2014-04-27 20:00:00 | 68%    | 13%
 2014-04-27 21:00:00 | 47%    | 16%
 2014-04-27 22:00:00 | 67%    | 17%
By the time of your flight delays were averaging about 2.5 hours. The delay program didn't end until 10:30p, at whihc point there weren't many non-cancelled flights left. Airlines including United prefer to cancel express since it impacts fewer passengers.

Cancelling your flight 12 hours in advance was an example of good day-of planning by UA, giving you time to rebook and change plans.
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Old Apr 29, 2014, 3:28 pm
  #55  
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Thanks for the explanation. Appreciate you taking the time to write this out.


Originally Posted by mduell
This topic comes up every few months from people generally not familiar with air traffic management. You can choose to disagree, but it easily passes the smell test.

Consider:
- EWR has runway construction going on, taking one of the big runways out of service.
- The winds yesterday were crosswinds for the remaining big runway and gusting into the 20s.
- The winds may have put LGA or JFK in configurations that are not favorable to EWR.

That adds up to delay programs for EWR, and the FAA and UAL knew they were coming in the morning; the 5:15a ET operations plan included "AFTER [1p ET] -EWR GROUND DELAY PROGRAM EXPECTED". Sure enough, the first delay program for EWR was proposed at 7:40a ET and finalized at 8a ET to begin metering operations at 26 per hour starting at 11a. Lots of cancellations were done by the airlines to mitigate delays and get through the day.

KEWR delays and cancellations by scheduled departure hour (ET) on Sunday:
Code:
        hour         | delays | cancellations 
---------------------+--------+---------------
 2014-04-27 06:00:00 | 4%     | 0%
 2014-04-27 07:00:00 | 5%     | 0%
 2014-04-27 08:00:00 | 10%    | 0%
 2014-04-27 09:00:00 | 19%    | 3%
 2014-04-27 10:00:00 | 13%    | 9%
 2014-04-27 11:00:00 | 5%     | 0%
 2014-04-27 12:00:00 | 15%    | 23%
 2014-04-27 13:00:00 | 52%    | 19%
 2014-04-27 14:00:00 | 44%    | 20%
 2014-04-27 15:00:00 | 52%    | 23%
 2014-04-27 16:00:00 | 29%    | 19%
 2014-04-27 17:00:00 | 49%    | 8%
 2014-04-27 18:00:00 | 73%    | 3%
 2014-04-27 19:00:00 | 64%    | 17%
 2014-04-27 20:00:00 | 68%    | 13%
 2014-04-27 21:00:00 | 47%    | 16%
 2014-04-27 22:00:00 | 67%    | 17%
By the time of your flight delays were averaging about 2.5 hours. The delay program didn't end until 10:30p, at whihc point there weren't many non-cancelled flights left. Airlines including United prefer to cancel express since it impacts fewer passengers.

Cancelling your flight 12 hours in advance was an example of good day-of planning by UA, giving you time to rebook and change plans.
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Old Apr 30, 2014, 8:14 am
  #56  
 
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Assistant stuck at O'hare right now

I just received an email from my assistant who is at ORD and trying to return back to GSO. She's sitting in a chaotic boarding area for several United Express flights listening to the constant litany of announcements about cancellations, delays, "weather", mechanical issues, etc. - just hoping it isn't about her flight.

She relayed that suddenly a gate agent started screaming into the phone, "liar..liar..all you give us is lies to tell these people and then we get thrown under the bus. I'M NOT TELLING THESE PEOPLE THAT! You are lying and I know it".

If it wasn't so true, it would be funny. Poor thing, she'll probably be stuck there all day. I told her next time, just drive the extra 40 minutes to Charlotte and take AA/US which has many (all mainline) flights a day to ORD.

United (and particularly Express) is just PATHETIC.
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Old Apr 30, 2014, 8:53 am
  #57  
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Originally Posted by trvlr70
I just received an email from my assistant who is at ORD and trying to return back to GSO. She's sitting in a chaotic boarding area for several United Express flights listening to the constant litany of announcements about cancellations, delays, "weather", mechanical issues, etc. - just hoping it isn't about her flight.

She relayed that suddenly a gate agent started screaming into the phone, "liar..liar..all you give us is lies to tell these people and then we get thrown under the bus. I'M NOT TELLING THESE PEOPLE THAT! You are lying and I know it".

If it wasn't so true, it would be funny. Poor thing, she'll probably be stuck there all day. I told her next time, just drive the extra 40 minutes to Charlotte and take AA/US which has many (all mainline) flights a day to ORD.

United (and particularly Express) is just PATHETIC.
What flight is she on? I can't find anything matching your description.

The 5:30a UA2141 ORD-GSO was hours late, but it's a non-revenue ferry.
The 9:21a UA6019 ORD-GSO blocked out 1 minute late.
The next flight isn't until 1:09p, and it's currently estimated to be on time.
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Old Apr 30, 2014, 9:32 am
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Originally Posted by mduell
What flight is she on? I can't find anything matching your description.

The 5:30a UA2141 ORD-GSO was hours late, but it's a non-revenue ferry.
The 9:21a UA6019 ORD-GSO blocked out 1 minute late.
The next flight isn't until 1:09p, and it's currently estimated to be on time.
I didn't say it was her flight. She's sitting in a boarding area where, I assume, multiple flights are departing and she overheard the above announcements regarding another flight.

But it is always a crap shoot on Express so that's why I suggested that she not go through that anymore and fly out of CLT.
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Old Apr 30, 2014, 9:34 am
  #59  
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Originally Posted by trvlr70
I just received an email from my assistant who is at ORD and trying to return back to GSO.
...
Poor thing, she'll probably be stuck there all day.
Good news, she got out on time and doesn't have to drive the extra 40 minutes!

She blocked out 7 minutes after your post, so the drama about "trying" and "probably stuck all day" seems a bit overblown.
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Old Apr 30, 2014, 9:41 am
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Originally Posted by mduell
Good news, she got out on time and doesn't have to drive the extra 40 minutes!

She blocked out 7 minutes after your post, so the drama about "trying" and "probably stuck all day" seems a bit overblown.
The POINT I was trying to make was that she overheard an agent refusing to lie about the true reason for a delay, cancellation, etc..
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