Wow - selling the upgrades at the gate so explicitly.
 

Just about to board flight from Denver to SFO. 14 people on upgrade list and about 5 open seats - 20 minutes prior to boarding they announce we have first class upgrades for sale. The New Spirit of United. Continually reaffirming that I don't need to earn 1K.

I think I know the person you're talking about. Tall male with glasss right? He's always doing that on my DEN to SNA flight and he always gets a bite

The only reports I have read of regarding GAs selling F at the gate openly have been in DEN. I have never encountered that anywhere else.

Someone should tell that man / lady that Smisek isn't in charge anymore...

Maybe DEN is being used as a test market, on select flights?

1K here. Im going Den-SFO-HNL Monday. Back on a similar route (but going the other direction!). The only leg I haven't been upgraded on is DEN_SFO. And there are buckets of open seats up there. I think Denver is a test market.

A new low IMHO. Reverse auction is next.

If truly a test for future roll out, I am NOT down with this, United. So tacky.

DEN has been doing this for a few years. How long a test do they need?

This is the difference of over and covert.

Think I mentioned this in the TOD thread for a ORD-DEN flight last week, not unique to DEN.

I've seen it happen (only once) at IAH as well.

if they sold them to elites at the same price they do general members would this be so bad?

not defending United or anything but they are running a business and trying to make as much money as they can.. just like we all do!

I've heard it at IAH and SFO.

These two together don't get said enough. My company has a customer that consistently says: "we give you $200m a year, you can't do that for free?". No, we can't.

"Someone should tell...."

Give me a break. "Someone" is an employee of a UA doing what his employer directs him to do. His employer is doing what its Board on behalf of its Shareholders is doing, e.g., maximize profits.

As Tblack15 and skgolf91 make clear, the same people who want free UG's ahead of paying customers presumably don't work for free unless there is a business case for it. The business case for free UG's is that if nobody will pay for the seat, it costs little to have it occupied, so might as well pat someone on the head and that might as well be an elite.

But shouldn't United then at least stop advertising CPU and possibly RPU as elite benefits? Or somehow openly say that upgrades may be sold to anyone before these are processed. Just seems like a little bit of "truth in advertising" issue? Or not?

But your company is telling your customer...hey, if you give us $300m an year, we will give you our super secret Silver status, and if you give us $400m an year, we will give you a even better Diamond status and guess what? If you have Diamond status, we might just do some of it for free! (but when you ask us for free next time we will sell it to someone else for $10m)

I'm sick of hearing that we are a business and we are here to make money BS. There are ways for businesses to make money while keeping their customers happy and not giving out empty promises. :rolleyes:

The real test that UA continually is running is to see how far they can push an elite before they really lose their business. Once we are "loyal", they have our money so it makes sense to shift focus. Of course, if you ignore the elite long enough, they'll leave and you lose alot.

In DEN, when they sell off an F seat for TOD and the elite loses his spot, how many of them actually decide to take their business elsewhere and how many just curse UA and continue giving them money. I am willing to be 99% are the later. Therefore the test is a success.

Whenever UA makes another devaluation cut, there's always some people on the forum that say "That's the last straw, goodbye UA". But how many actually leave? How many realize that AA or DL just made the same cut (and UA just copied them)?

Yes it sucks and is wrong, but if AA, DL, UA, all "independently" decided tomorrow to completely cut their FF programs, I wonder how much it would really affect things (at least domestically). I'm assuming in a few years they'll all be pretty much equal to spirit. (maybe I'm exaggerating a bit but you get my point)

Agree.

Airlines have no concept of loyalty if they merely view it on a transactional basis.

I would find it extremely hard to believe that UA doesn't have sophisticated models of not just the immediate transactional value of selling an upgrade versus CPU versus instrument, but also the predicted long-term financial consequences. They have such a massive dataset...

Ummm No.

There is no policy that tells, or even permits a GA to sell upgrades when people are on the upgrade list. First, if there was, we would know about it, second, given this only happens at one airport and apparently with one or small subset of agents, they are obviously making this up as they go otherwise it would be fairly common-place across the system.

So, to the OP or anyone else who encountered this agent - did you confront them, and if not, why not? Second, please open a complaint file with the 1K desk so they start to become aware of this agent's activities and can arrange for them to be retrained.

Data does not necessarily equate to quality decision making. This airline, and most others, do incredibly stupid things. Selling upgrades at the gate with elites still on the waitlist falls squarely in that category.

They are still trying to undo the damage that these Smisek-era blunders caused. I suspect Oscar has no idea this is still going on.

One would think.

But...SHARES.

ETA: (and what Kacee said)

How much?

I've had it happen with multiple GAs, including a female GA at another airport. I've always assumed it was some sort of policy given that it happened frequently.

If they try this, everyone on the upgrade list should go up to the counter and ask that their upgrade be cleared immediately since the cabin obviously didn't fill. This will have the effect of embarrassing the agents, and also clog them up dealing with status holders so they are unable to sell their illicit upgrades.

Safe Travels,

Doc. ;)

How is that?

UA is a business that is selling seats to customers who are willing to buy them. Whether selling them on the web site in advance, or selling them at the gate just before the flight, what is really the difference? Do folks really get upset when UA or other carriers sell out the premium cabin ahead of time with F tickets from the getgo (and yes, many of those are also discount F fares)? Or should they not be allowed to do that, either?

It is implied that UA will try to sell available seats, and that upgrades will be given when there is remaining availability.

UA does give certain benefits to elites, and sometimes, that includes an upgrade to a premium cabin. Maybe elites shouldn't be expecting upgrades 100% of the time. UA as a business decides their strategy for selling seats vs. upgrades. You don't have to like how they do it, but they control their business, not the customers, and presumably, do it in a way that they thinks will maximize profit.

I also find it curious that many on this board (though not necessarily you, specifically) will complain about this, yet will admittedly take a buy up last minute if there are X seats left but they are X+2 on the upgrade list.

Then maybe you should fly a non-profit airline?

Fact is, UA is a business, and they are there to make money (or do shareholders hold stock for a different reason?). If UA thought holding more seats for free upgrades would make them more money, I'm sure they would do it. Clearly, they think selling them will work out better. Again, you don't have to agree, but they are the ones making those decisions.

And I'll completely disagree, here.

Their concept of loyalty may be different than yours, but I don't know what the point of status programs are if its not to help build further loyalty. Are they showering benefits on people to uselessly spend money that could be profit?

Are you privy to UAs internal memos showing that they can't sell upgrades at the gate?

They sell upgrades online, over the phone, on the app and at the kiosk when you check in. I'm not sure why they can't sell them at the gate if they so choose.

I get people like their upgrades (I do too, I just don't complain when I don't get them). Last month, I put up for a miles upgrade from IAD-SFO - as a gold, and even when trying to pay with miles, I was 8 on the list (of 90 or so). Did I come back on FT to complain? No - I sat in my assigned seat in economy, and 5 hours later, got off the plane in SFO, in the product that I paid for. Miles were back in my account in a day or two. Was it ideal? Not really. Was it a big deal, much less the worst thing to happen to me that day? No, absolutely not, either.

My opinion has always been if you need or really want to sit in F, than you pay for that fare outright. Otherwise, you have no guarantee of getting an F seat. Next, we'll have people in here complaining that UA sells E+ seats instead of letting an elite have a free middle next to them.

I did not confront them. Mostly because I was already in First (on a paid P fare). I was just posting it because even as a 1K on a P fare I still find this practice really distasteful. It just becomes another data point in my calculation of future bookings. I actually needed to book another round-trip to Denver today (after the meeting I had there yesterday) and I was going to book on VX, but unfortunately VX was more expensive and the flight times not as good. So I bought an RPU fare on the outbound (so that RPU is worth $129 cause that would have been the fare difference) and I bought a P fare on the return. If VX had been the same price I would have bought a discounted F ticket on them before I would have on United - in the past I would never even have considered that. So what has changed is that I always look at AS/VX now and compare to UA, then I purchase the best value proposition. It is probably the first time in over 20 years that I do this - in the past it was ALWAYS UA. In this next case UA "won", for my Seattle trip next week AS won, and for my May trip to Denver AS/VX won as well. So the thing that has changed is that all else being equal (price and schedule) I now lean towards AS/VX over UA.

I assume you'd be ok with tipping the GA $20 on the side to give you the upgrade, though.

I am pretty sure there is not ONE FT member who frequents this forum who "[expects] upgrades 100% of the time". My best guess: most expect upgrades occasionally. And these are ever-dwindling, and there's threads to that effect.

I agree with the sentiment eluded to upthread that UA is braking their promise of luring passengers into thinking they will get CPUs and offer RPUs and GPUs, only to afterward try their darnedest to effectively not letting any of those ever clear.

We all understand it's a business. Some here are just a little ticked when benefits or such get eroded or watered down...

Air Canada has just moved to auctions for upgrades. You make a bid when you buy your ticket and they tell you if it has been accepted at the airport I believe. If that works well for them (and it's perhaps too early to say) then the writing may be on the wall.

Frequently? Exaggerate much?

I've never seen this happen on UA. I've seen DL do it though.

This is nothing new. There have been various iterations of an upgrade auction process for years on other carriers.

Same here -- although I've only seen it once at DEN. Two years ago, DEN-MSY flight. I was something like #2 with 4 seats open. The LED display at the gate was advertising upgrades for $149, and the GA was announcing the same thing over the mike. The flight went out with F full and me still at #2, so it appears they made some money there.

Is your statement based on some evidence? I've certainly been offered upgrades for purchase -- both at and after checkin -- when I was still on the upgrade list! I think this is common-place across the system. And I'm not aware of any policy statement by UA against it. UA Insider stopped commenting on this years ago, which I have taken to mean that UA policy is now to sell as many upgrades as possible -- at all times -- regardless of what the upgrade list looks like.

Or did you mean "Policy allows upgrades to be sold online and over the phone while folks are on the upgrade list, just not in-person by the GA?" Which I guess would be consistent with my experience, but then I'd like to know about the policy (I wasn't aware of it).

I did see them announce upgrades for sale at the gate earlier this year in DEN as well. For that instance, it was a relatively empty flight and all CPU's had cleared with one seat open at the gate, so it made sense to advertise it for that flight.

have they cleared all CPU prior to offering these "fire sale" upgrades at the gate? If so, I don't see an issue with it.

If it WASN'T official policy, what would a gate agent get out of doing this? Some sort of misguided notion of getting more revenue for their employer?

I got CPU'd on 3 out of 4 segments yesterday as a gold. So, as with everything else, YMMV.

I agree that it's distasteful, and it affects my bookings (I no longer book 100% United), and I've complained loudly to UA about it, but is it really any different than the offers that have popped up on the website or the kiosks for years?

Substantively no different, but way more offensive in a rub-your-nose-in-it kind of way. And this matters. People frequently make buying decisions on emotion. Entire marketing campaigns are built on this premise.