DawgmanOH

I'm not saying you are wrong. Just commenting that I fly out of CLE every week and have never heard a GA announce upgrades for sale. It certainly could happen and I have just been lucky not to hear it but figured I would add my two cents. Cheers.

bocastephen

Yes, to both - we already have our long-standing TOD issue that Oscar was suppose to reform, but yes, anyone can be offered an electronic upgrade during check-in, that has always been the case.

The issue is a verbal auctioning of upgrades by gate agents - it should not be happening at all, let alone when the upgrade list still has people on it.

Delta has at-gate buy-ups, but their program has been around a long time and is strictly managed to prohibit the sale of an upgrade while customers are waiting to clear - they collect a credit card number upfront for customers booked into a specific fare class or higher, then, and only if, unclaimed F seats are available at boarding after the list is cleared, the credit cards will be charged and the buy-ups cleared into F, which is the proper way to do it.

Similar with Air Canada's new program vs the old - they will offer an electronic upgrade at check-in, but often at some insane price, but now they are collecting bids up front and will only clear the bids if seats remain after the upgrade eligible customers are accounted for.

Wooglin

I'm CLE based too.

I've only ever heard it once there, on a CLE-CUN nonstop in December- There may not have been anyone on the UG list at the time though- I was booked on Z fare anyway so I didn't pay any particular attention to the UG list that day.

jlemon

I did not see an answer to this and I'm curious about this as well: how much was UA asking for an upgrade on this flight?

minnyfly

Over-entitled rings true again. Good for UA to do this. Other airlines do it. It makes sense. I like the option as a non-status customer. No reason UA shouldn't do it.

Chukiechz

It was a while ago, but I think it was around $150. Definitely over $100.

I do remember he was pushing hard talking about free alcohol, snacks, more room for the 2 hour flight, etc.

Rumples

I can see where you're coming from, but UA is very different from other carriers. UA is mostly return customers and business travelers who are often repeat business for a large chunk of the airlines bottom line.

Personally, I don't like announcing the upgrade availability, but that's just my take.

JBord

The indignation about UA selling upgrades ahead of CPU's clearing is odd. They do this all the time on the website or over the phone, even within the CPU window.

I don't have an issue, per se, with a GA selling an upgrade, but it seems like there could be a better way to do it than a big announcement at the gate. For one, I can see a long line of people lining up to find out the price (heck, why not? I probably would). The gates are a big enough mess already, and there's nothing worse than watching the people in front of you complain about piddly crap when you're waiting to get to a GA to work out a plan for a possible missed connection or something else actually important. Secondly, as others have said, it seems like this could be done with a little more tact -- maybe a reminder that upgrades can be purchased on the app -- as the way it was described is just another irritating thorn in the side of elites who still feel we haven't quite recovered from the Smisek years.

I also wonder about the GA's motivation. Is he making commission on this??? Is there a bonus for revenue earned at the gate? I can't believe so, but it's pretty rare to see people in any job creating extra work for themselves unless there is at least some small personal incentive.

JBord

I'm not sure that's true. I recall someone quoting UA stats here a while ago that something like 75% of UA's annual revenue came from either non-elites or one-time fliers. I'm sure that's not exactly right, but that was the spirit of the data that was shared here.

N104UA

I fly from DEN often and have never heard this, although usually F is full on most flights I see. However there is nothing wrong with this, UA is in the business to make money, also I wonder what status #1 on the list had, if it was a 1K maybe be mad but if it was a Gold or Silver I think UA should do this. Also with someone saying they will switch loyalties, I am sure UA would find someone else to fill your seat with recent load factors, and in DEN your other choices are WN or F9 if you prefer most flights to be nonstop (on both of them everyone is in first class!). DL has publicaly said they want 80% of people in Front to be paying for that and I assume UA and AA want the same so saying you switch and in a year you will be making the same compliant on the DL forum.

Travel is the only business where people expect a free upgrade on something they purchase, when I go to Best Buy and buy a TV I can earn points but getting their "VIP" status doesn't allow me to upgrade my 55" TV purchase to a 65" TV for free because they have the 65" in stock. You should think of airlines in a similar fashion.

The foregoing being said I think UA could make some changes to acknowledge their Premiers, such as waiving co-pays for mileage upgrades so many hours prior to departure (5days for GS, 4 days for 1K, etc.).

spin88

That was the test that Jeff ran from 2012-2015. The revenue figures show it did not work out so well, and United is an also ran revenue wise, with Oscar having been forced to admit that "United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz knows that his airline has alienated some of its most loyal fliers." http://bigstory.ap.org/article/435fe...ness-travelers

Disappearing upgrades is a large part of why I'm unhappy. I buy F for anything over about 1500 miles, but on shorter flights, I take Delta, who upgrades me as a PLT most of the time ex-SFO. United is too busy trying to sell TOD upgrades to keep any kind of a relationship with me, and I pay about 40-45 c/mi on average for my trips. United is not getting that, Delta is.

You would think, but in the Smisik era financial analysis did not go much deeper the running the max revenue on a spreedsheet and assuming it would magically materialize. The "stick it to hub-captives" mindset is not all gone yet, although I assume Oscar knows how badly if failed.

Modelling revenue in a customer service business is hard to get right when your analysis is based upon your being a commodity business. Just say "people buy on price and scheduled" ten times fast....

+1

I saw it once, there was no upgrade list, everyone had been upgraded, they offered upgrades for $50 SFO-LAX at the gate. I also got an upgrade offer once upon checking in, but then realized what was up. There was no upgrade list, since I was right at the 24 hour check in. I went on the list as #1 and was later upgraded.

Delta sells cheap F seats, its how they do FCM, but I've gotten exactly one upgrade offer in about 400K of flying on DL since 2012, and my family - flying on non-status seperate tickets (Delta will only upgrade one to F/E+, so I split the tickets) - have never gotten an offer either.

+1. I do think it has gotten much worse on UA since 2011.

esquesk

I am allowed by my travel policy to purchase Y-up fares, but not premium cabin fares on domestic travel.

As a 1K, this usually leads to me being #1 or #2 on the upgrade list. If I don't clear, I re-fare to the lowest available fare, usually saving ~$400-500 OW.

Each time they sell a TOD and I don't clear the upgrade list, UA is actually losing revenue. I'd say that's a reason not to do it.

worldwidedreamer

The SFO DL SC is one of my favorite domestic lounges. At the same time, I prefer the VX short haul proudct---worth checking into if seats matter more to you than lounges.

AirbusFan2B

Quote (minnyfly): Over-entitled rings true again. Good for UA to do this. Other airlines do it. It makes sense. I like the option as a non-status customer. No reason UA shouldn't do it.

Reply: I assume you're not GS or 1K. For those of us that are high elite, this type of behavior on UA's part makes it imprudent for the customer to award a high share of business to UA as it makes a mockery of loyalty. Then the honest thing would be to abolish the CPU/RPU/GPU program rather than tout these phantom benefits. If that is how UA wants to play it - clearly its prerogative - then there will be consequences.

minnyfly

I remember it being something like 80%. But whatever it exactly was, elite customers are not the bread and butter of any airline. They're the cherry on top.

Upgrades are the "reward" you get for limited non-stops at non-hub stations. You're in a lucky spot for upgrades with DL at SFO. There's few, if any, places better for a DL elite. It's a spoke station with some younger flights and high F ratios. If they make the advancements they want in the West Coast, your easy upgrades will shrink. We know they want to make 80% of F paid for. Plus, we know an airline can't worry about bitter elites. For every one disgusted about your airline, there's another flying you because they're upset at another.

You've only seen it once? How often to do you fly DL anyway?

I can't imagine there being many customers like you. Certainly not enough to not monetize F.


Nope, I just said I wasn't. And I'm that naive to believe that complementary upgrades are why I should pursue elite status.

There will be consequences if UA doesn't go this way in the form of declining business due to lower financial performances compared to the competition. Think of it from the airline's perspective. Where are the customers going to turn? Every airline is moving this direction. Is UA scared of elites that highly value upgrades jumping to DL, an airline that has publicly stated they want to sell 80% of F seats? When they are probably already flying your airline for many other more important reasons?

From my viewpoint, UA has not been as aggressive in selling F in advance. And if they want to compete better, they need to. They've been too generous in the upgrade area for too long. From my experiences, UA F is expensive. Is it going to be any different to get the rug pulled out from under you with a week to go versus the day of the flight?