spin88

Delta used the opportunity presented by Jeff's management team's driving away valuable traffic, by expanding at three key airports in a major way - JFK, LAX, SEA. JFK is now profitable, LAX is profitable, and SEA is profitable (certain people on this board claim, w/o providing evidence it is not, Delta says it is, and I assume they are not lying on conference calls) Delta also expanded its service ex-BOS and added more capacity into SFO and the west coast in general. Delta is now trying to raise its prices - which they can do having gobbled up more of the high value traffic.

But it also comes back to why could Delta do this? Well they realized that high value customers and repeat business wanted a higher quality service, and they invested to provide it. The contrast with United's approach of looking at costs and figuring anything they cut in costs would not cost them business, it would instead go to the bottom line.

bocastephen

Which is why the industry, as a whole in the long term, is a zero-sum game.

nomad420

While posted on another thread (GPU/RPU are worthless) I believe this experience has some usefulness here.

Looking to book a red eye flight SFO-CLE at the end of May I figure no problem I will finally use one of my RPU's. Of course on checking the flight I see P0,R0,F9. I call 1K desk she tells me yes I will be wait listed. Well, as I am flying with my wife on this trip I don't want to take the redeye in E+. So I go to price F on line and low and behold I see I can instantly upgrade with miles. I call 1K desk again and am told they don't see it but it must be some kind of "internet only offer" as mile upgrade also clear into R space as well and they are still seeing R0. Well needless to say I dumped the miles to lock in the upgrade. I now wonder if UA is now not only pushing TOD upgrades, "gate agent" sales of upgrades, and now even mileage upgrades over instruments and of obviously CPU's.

Kacee

What class did the upgrade book into? Screen shot please.

nomad420

Mystery solved, went to seat assignment and low and behold get message that "one or more of your segments is not available for upgrade" even though it was a one way nonstop flight and that I was indeed wait listed!! Called 1K desk and cancelled the purchase (was just within 24 hrs). Was told that less than half first cabin sold but since the flight was still "far off" they are not opening R space at this time.

Artpen100

For international, I find the dollar cost of regular discounted economy plus the copay to be about the same as purchasing Y,B,M and using a GPU. So to me, a GPU is essentially equal to the miles component of an upgrade. And I have tons of miles, with more on credit card, so that would not be a problem even if I was only Star Gold.

And when there is no R (or O for AF, or upgrade from premium economy on BA), I'm looking for the cheapest business class for cash.

cyclogenesis

So, a datapoint for y'all:
I have less domestic upgrades as a 1K as when I was gold.
As gold I would prowl for buyups etc before check in and after using the app.
As 1K I feel I should have a chance at CPU. But, if I don't clear before check in I do not clear.. I will be first on UG list with a nice buffer of FC seats remaining.. I get the $90 offer for buy up and reject it when I may have been tempted in the past.. Between T-24 and T-12 we quickly go to zero FC available..

Now, United gotta make $$ I get it.. But it would be nice if 1K was worth something in the domestic upgrade arena. Perhaps a discount on those TODs.. Perhaps if all RPUs are cleared before TODs.

Wooglin

I would settle for the TOD offers just to be equal for Elites vs non-members. I'm tired of seeing $279+ while my coworker general members get $79-$99

Clearing all RPUs at T-24 would just be grand.

Kacee

You know you can apply a GPU down to a W fare, right?

Thanks for clarifying.

The agent's comment about not opening R because it's "far off" was nonsense. Phone agents don't know anything about when (or if) R will open.

nomad420

[QUOTE=Artpen100;28062880]For international, I find the dollar cost of regular discounted economy plus the copay to be about the same as purchasing Y,B,M and using a GPU. So to me, a GPU is essentially equal to the miles component of an upgrade. ]

Purchasing a Y,B, and M and applying a GPU is still no guarantee. I have recently learned this the hard way. In some ways I am now seeing that applying the miles and copay may be better. At least if no R space opens up you get the miles & cash back. But if the GPU doesn't get taken UA isn't refunding cash back to a lower class level.

WineCountryUA

Well UA was doing this over 10 years ago (and earlier) - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...olci-gate.html.

cerealmarketer

Delta had big JFK, LAX, SEA plans before UA integrated. The UA reliability problems were gravy.

Why could they do it?

You pointed it out above.

Very high margin fortress hubs ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC that let them reinvest and take losses as they picked off pockets of margin from AA, UA, and AS.

Witness AA / Parker struggling to make a case for his yield matching DL's going forward. There's something more structural that happened than just UA tripping up, and part of it was DL's ability to come into non-fortress markets with essentially no premium traffic and pick it off with lower, reasonable premium prices vs offering a binary full fare / upgrade model.

The upside is DL having a harder time growing yields than it used to now that the low hanging fruit are picked.

mduell

Regional Premier Upgrades are subject to capacity controls, which may limit the number of seats available for upgrade.
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...gupgrades.aspx

And the same language for GPUs.

No; the upgrade windows are the earliest a CPU can happen, with no guarantees or promises made.

I agree it's a change from past behavior, but it is in no way contrary to UA's published claims about CPU/instruments.

Sure, but those practices also lasted for more than a decade with superior (in UA's case leading for many years) PRASM.

Source?

I recognize UA's right/ability/wisdom to do this, but I hate it too. What's next, higher coach fares for elites vs the open market?

halls120

Buried deep in the fine print, nowhere near as prominent as the "your upgrade window is xx hours."

What UA is doing is legal, but it's sleazy.

mduell

There's no upgrade window for RPUs (or you could say it begins at booking).

I'm pretty happy with discount F fares priced right around what the product is worth over discount Y.