May 29, 2017, 1:21 pm
Last edit by: kirkwoodj
Check the current status of aircraft reconfigured (or delivered) with new Polaris seats: http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3.
A Polaris Update and Polaris Mod Schedule to indicate the status of specific aircraft are maintained by those that manage the United Airlines Fleet Website.
Except for 773- and 781-operated flights, and those markets selling Premium Plus, Polaris-equipped planes have not been allocated to specific routes. You won't know until approx. 36-48 hours before departure if you'll have a newly reconfigured aircraft, and even then, it may be replaced with a non-retrofitted aircraft.
777-300ER - All 22 aircraft have Polaris (60 seats) and installation of Premium Plus cabins (24 seats) is complete.
767-300ER - As of September 2020, 31 of the 38 aircraft have been reconfigured with the Polaris seats.
- Retrofit is from 3-cabin to 2-cabin with direct-aisle-access seats. No 3-cabin 767s remain in service.
- 76A configuration is 30J/50Y+/134Y, total of 214; fleet to consist of 17 ships (former 3-cabin 767s).
- 76L configuration is 46J/22PE/47Y+/52Y; fleet to consist of 21 ships (18 former 2-cabin 76C and 3 used ships from Hawaiian).
767-400ER - [16 aircraft] None updated yet; modifications put on hold due to Covid-19.
777-200ER - As of September 2020, 46 of the 50 aircraft have been reconfigured with Polaris and Premium Plus seats.
- Configuration is 50 Polaris seats, 32 in the front cabin and 18 in the second cabin (behind 2L/R)
- Configuration is 10 across in economy, with 24 Premium Plus seats, 4686 E+ seats and 156 E seats, with E+ in front economy cabin plus exit rows and bulkhead at 3L/R, i.e., almost the same as current pmCO planes, except with 4 seats in middle section.
- Seat map (v5) on united.com
787-8, 787-9 - As of November 2022, all 787-8/9 are converted or in mod. No chance of flying old configuration anymore.
- 788 configuration has 28 Polaris seats (20 in front cabin, 8 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
- 789 configuration has 48 Polaris seats (32 in front cabin, 16 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
787-10 - 13 787-10s have been delivered in 2020. All come with Polaris and Premium Plus cabins factory-installed. Another 19 should be added by 2024.
FAQ:
Q: Does a Polaris ticket mean the aircraft has the new Polaris seat?
A: No, Polaris is the label UA uses for long haul international business class. It is also the label UA uses for the new seats, so this does create some confusion.
All the 773s and 787-10s are 100% the new seat.
The rest of the long haul fleet in various stages of conversion, see http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3
Q: How to tell if my aircraft is the new style Polaris seats?
A: If the unassigned business class section is showing orange seats or all the seats are side-by-side or there is a section for 4 adjacent seats in the middle, this is an old style lie-flat aircreaft
If the unassigned bussines class seats are dark blue seats or the all the seats appear to have direct aisle access, then you aircraft is the new Polaris seat.
You can also look at the FT maintained, United Fleet Site and crosscheck the tail number or check thePolaris Update tab
Q: How to tell if my aircraft has the new PremiumPlus (PP) / Premium Economy seats?
A: If the unassigned seats just behind business class are purple seats or the aircraft is 773 or 787-10, then yes. However, the purple color seat will only show on routes where PP is being sold.
Aircraft with PP seats are being used on some routes but are not being sold as PP. In those cases, the seats are considered to be a part of E+. In those cases, an indicator of PP sold as E+ will be if the first few rows of economy, there are just 2 seats on the sides (with the rest of E+ showing 3 seats).
Q: Will the aircraft I see at booking be the same configuration at flight time?
A: Unfortunately with the fleet in transit, aircraft swaps happen. UA tends to use placeholders until 2 days before travel and even after that last minute swaps do happen.
Q: My flight seat map shows 772 with polaris seats is it a retrofit?
A: Possibly. The flight status page shows the most accurate scheduled aircraft. If a 77W is swapped in, it will list the aircraft as 777-300ER. However, if the 772's seatmap shows blue rectangular boxes in the business class cabin instead of orange "pointy rounds", this would indicate that a retrofit aircraft has been swapped.
See also: United Future/Changed Routes w/ Polaris seats
A Polaris Update and Polaris Mod Schedule to indicate the status of specific aircraft are maintained by those that manage the United Airlines Fleet Website.
Except for 773- and 781-operated flights, and those markets selling Premium Plus, Polaris-equipped planes have not been allocated to specific routes. You won't know until approx. 36-48 hours before departure if you'll have a newly reconfigured aircraft, and even then, it may be replaced with a non-retrofitted aircraft.
777-300ER - All 22 aircraft have Polaris (60 seats) and installation of Premium Plus cabins (24 seats) is complete.
767-300ER - As of September 2020, 31 of the 38 aircraft have been reconfigured with the Polaris seats.
- Retrofit is from 3-cabin to 2-cabin with direct-aisle-access seats. No 3-cabin 767s remain in service.
- 76A configuration is 30J/50Y+/134Y, total of 214; fleet to consist of 17 ships (former 3-cabin 767s).
- 76L configuration is 46J/22PE/47Y+/52Y; fleet to consist of 21 ships (18 former 2-cabin 76C and 3 used ships from Hawaiian).
767-400ER - [16 aircraft] None updated yet; modifications put on hold due to Covid-19.
777-200ER - As of September 2020, 46 of the 50 aircraft have been reconfigured with Polaris and Premium Plus seats.
- Configuration is 50 Polaris seats, 32 in the front cabin and 18 in the second cabin (behind 2L/R)
- Configuration is 10 across in economy, with 24 Premium Plus seats, 46
- Seat map (v5) on united.com
787-8, 787-9 - As of November 2022, all 787-8/9 are converted or in mod. No chance of flying old configuration anymore.
- 788 configuration has 28 Polaris seats (20 in front cabin, 8 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
- 789 configuration has 48 Polaris seats (32 in front cabin, 16 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
787-10 - 13 787-10s have been delivered in 2020. All come with Polaris and Premium Plus cabins factory-installed. Another 19 should be added by 2024.
FAQ:
Q: Does a Polaris ticket mean the aircraft has the new Polaris seat?
A: No, Polaris is the label UA uses for long haul international business class. It is also the label UA uses for the new seats, so this does create some confusion.
All the 773s and 787-10s are 100% the new seat.
The rest of the long haul fleet in various stages of conversion, see http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3
Q: How to tell if my aircraft is the new style Polaris seats?
A: If the unassigned business class section is showing orange seats or all the seats are side-by-side or there is a section for 4 adjacent seats in the middle, this is an old style lie-flat aircreaft
If the unassigned bussines class seats are dark blue seats or the all the seats appear to have direct aisle access, then you aircraft is the new Polaris seat.
You can also look at the FT maintained, United Fleet Site and crosscheck the tail number or check thePolaris Update tab
Q: How to tell if my aircraft has the new PremiumPlus (PP) / Premium Economy seats?
A: If the unassigned seats just behind business class are purple seats or the aircraft is 773 or 787-10, then yes. However, the purple color seat will only show on routes where PP is being sold.
Aircraft with PP seats are being used on some routes but are not being sold as PP. In those cases, the seats are considered to be a part of E+. In those cases, an indicator of PP sold as E+ will be if the first few rows of economy, there are just 2 seats on the sides (with the rest of E+ showing 3 seats).
Q: Will the aircraft I see at booking be the same configuration at flight time?
A: Unfortunately with the fleet in transit, aircraft swaps happen. UA tends to use placeholders until 2 days before travel and even after that last minute swaps do happen.
Q: My flight seat map shows 772 with polaris seats is it a retrofit?
A: Possibly. The flight status page shows the most accurate scheduled aircraft. If a 77W is swapped in, it will list the aircraft as 777-300ER. However, if the 772's seatmap shows blue rectangular boxes in the business class cabin instead of orange "pointy rounds", this would indicate that a retrofit aircraft has been swapped.
See also: United Future/Changed Routes w/ Polaris seats
✨ Polaris (& PP) Retrofits: Schedule, ....
Mar 15, 2017, 4:44 pm
#121
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
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- the A321 doesn't deliver the range of a 752 without aux tanks occupying cargo space
- The 737-900ER/MAX9/MAX10 are slower and less capable than the 757 for longhaul operations
- the 787-8 is 65,000lb heavier than a 763ER with way more range than would be necessary to replace it, with lower residual value and higher CASM than the larger 787-9, which is probably too big for most 763 markets
- The A330-900neo is too much airplane (bigger/heavier than 788) to replace the 763, 338neo is a non-starter
- A350 series is an entirely different class
The MOM/797 is getting closer to reality, and that will be UA's 757/767 replacement. We can blame Smisek for a lot of things; this shouldn't be one of them.
What do you consider a reliable source of information? Info I have is A350s won't be coming in 2018 as planned but no word on if or when we will actually take them. With us getting 14 77Ws and possibly taking some second hand ones from EK there really is no need for the A350s. Also the first of the 737 MAXs are arriving earlier then planned.
Mar 15, 2017, 4:57 pm
#123
Join Date: May 2015
Programs: All the programs!
Posts: 1,006
It appears that there are some delays due to Zodiac which are causing delays in the 763 and 772 retrofits: https://skift.com/2017/03/15/united-...-manufacturer/.
Mar 15, 2017, 5:37 pm
#124
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Posts: 875
I wouldn't say that at all. There really aren't good 757/767 replacements in the marketplace, at least for certain missions United needs them for.
- the A321 doesn't deliver the range of a 752 without aux tanks occupying cargo space
- The 737-900ER/MAX9/MAX10 are slower and less capable than the 757 for longhaul operations
- the 787-8 is 65,000lb heavier than a 763ER with way more range than would be necessary to replace it, with lower residual value and higher CASM than the larger 787-9, which is probably too big for most 763 markets
- The A330-900neo is too much airplane (bigger/heavier than 788) to replace the 763, 338neo is a non-starter
- A350 series is an entirely different class
- the A321 doesn't deliver the range of a 752 without aux tanks occupying cargo space
- The 737-900ER/MAX9/MAX10 are slower and less capable than the 757 for longhaul operations
- the 787-8 is 65,000lb heavier than a 763ER with way more range than would be necessary to replace it, with lower residual value and higher CASM than the larger 787-9, which is probably too big for most 763 markets
- The A330-900neo is too much airplane (bigger/heavier than 788) to replace the 763, 338neo is a non-starter
- A350 series is an entirely different class
Mar 15, 2017, 6:05 pm
#125
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: BOS
Programs: AA EXP, UA 1K
Posts: 1,078
It appears that there are some delays due to Zodiac which are causing delays in the 763 and 772 retrofits: https://skift.com/2017/03/15/united-...-manufacturer/. Makes sense that the 772s, which will stick around longer, would get priority on the new seats.
http://www.reuters.com/article/ual-b...-idUSL1N18U0HJ
Mar 15, 2017, 6:15 pm
#126
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
Posts: 4,599
Well so much for Oscar touting back in June that there would be no supplier issues with Zodiac....
http://www.reuters.com/article/ual-b...-idUSL1N18U0HJ
http://www.reuters.com/article/ual-b...-idUSL1N18U0HJ
Some might find some upside out of this.
Mar 15, 2017, 7:12 pm
#127
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, AA, DL
Posts: 7,418
Mar 15, 2017, 7:39 pm
#128
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,448
The 788 may be heavier and have a better range than the 763, but it seats a similar number of passengers in UA's configuration and has a lower CASM (even if it is higher than the 789). At this point, UA may just wait it out for the 797, but the 788 is still a very good option. The 788 gets a ton of heat for being too small and having a CASM larger than the 789, but it is still a great plane with a lower CASM than most aircraft and is perfect for smaller markets.
I fully agree the 788 is an outstanding airplane for a certain mission profile, but its 'sweet spot' has little overlap with that of the 763ER.
Mar 17, 2017, 7:09 am
#129
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: DL PM, MR Titanium/LTP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,130
Polaris Seat Delays (Zodiac)
Surprised not to see this posted anywhere yet. Mods feel free to move to the Polaris thread if warranted but for now I think this deserves a standalone as big news.
Skift is reporting significant delays coming from Zodiac in production of the Polaris seat:
Same issue that AA had (and is suing Zodiac over), from the article sounds like UA is stuck since Zodiac is the exclusive manufacturer of the new Polaris seat. Explains why we haven't seen a firm timeline for the rest of the long-haul fleet to get Polaris
Article: https://skift.com/2017/03/15/united-...-manufacturer/
Skift is reporting significant delays coming from Zodiac in production of the Polaris seat:
In guidance issued Tuesday, Zodiac warned investors it was having “industrial issues” in the United Kingdom, and said the problems were causing “significant disruptions and delays."
...“We are not happy. Period.” United CEO Oscar Munoz said Tuesday at the J.P. Morgan Aviation, Transportation and Industrials Conference.
...“We are not happy. Period.” United CEO Oscar Munoz said Tuesday at the J.P. Morgan Aviation, Transportation and Industrials Conference.
Article: https://skift.com/2017/03/15/united-...-manufacturer/
Mar 17, 2017, 7:30 am
#130
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: CLE
Programs: United, Hilton, Marriott, Hertz, National
Posts: 189
I'm pretty sure this exact issue was mentioned here when UA announced Zodiac would be manufacturing the Polaris seats. Hopefully UA is able to work with Zodiac to fix whatever "industrial issues" they're facing or quickly decided to do the same thing AA did and find another manufacturer.
Last edited by BasedinCLE; Mar 17, 2017 at 7:42 am
Mar 17, 2017, 8:22 am
#132
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: ORD-LAS
Programs: UA MM 1K, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 4,419
They should of never gone to these seats. Oscar should've stopped this as Smisek will continue to haunt this airline. Maybe UA has a chance to switch to something better.
Mar 17, 2017, 8:41 am
#133
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HKG
Programs: UA
Posts: 84
Not to say it wasn't a company wide problem back in the day but I remember the news being AA's Concept D delays were from the US-based Zodiac unit while the UK unit was operating just fine. Now that the pressure is off the US Zodiac for Concept D, it's not exactly surprising for them to report they're humming along.
Ultimately, it sucks that Polaris will take longer.
Ultimately, it sucks that Polaris will take longer.
Mar 17, 2017, 8:47 am
#134
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
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It's important to make the distinction between Zodiac UK (formerly Contour Aerospace) and Zodiac USA (formerly Weber), as they are both part of the Zodiac conglomerate, but in other ways function quite separately. For instance, one of the main factors cited in the Zodiac USA delays for AA was a four-week strike at its Texas manufacturing facility, which is independent of the Zodiac UK manufacturing facility.
Regardless, while there may be some kind of systemic issue with Zodiac, it does not appear that the particular issues encountered by Zodiac USA would necessarily have been predictive of similar delays at Zodiac UK.
Regardless, while there may be some kind of systemic issue with Zodiac, it does not appear that the particular issues encountered by Zodiac USA would necessarily have been predictive of similar delays at Zodiac UK.
Mar 17, 2017, 8:49 am
#135
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2010
Programs: AA
Posts: 14,732
I'm pretty sure this exact issue was mentioned here when UA announced Zodiac would be manufacturing the Polaris seats. Hopefully UA is able to work with Zodiac to fix whatever "industrial issues" they're facing or quickly decided to do the same thing AA did and find another manufacturer.
I'm sad my initial misgivings were correct.
