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✨ Polaris (& PP) Retrofits: Schedule, ....

Old May 29, 17, 1:21 pm
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Last edit by: kirkwoodj
Check the current status of aircraft reconfigured (or delivered) with new Polaris seats: http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3.

A Polaris Update and Polaris Mod Schedule to indicate the status of specific aircraft are maintained by those that manage the United Airlines Fleet Website.

Except for 773- and 781-operated flights, and those markets selling Premium Plus, Polaris-equipped planes have not been allocated to specific routes. You won't know until approx. 36-48 hours before departure if you'll have a newly reconfigured aircraft, and even then, it may be replaced with a non-retrofitted aircraft.

777-300ER - All 22 aircraft have Polaris (60 seats) and installation of Premium Plus cabins (24 seats) is complete.

767-300ER - As of September 2020, 31 of the 38 aircraft have been reconfigured with the Polaris seats.
- Retrofit is from 3-cabin to 2-cabin with direct-aisle-access seats. No 3-cabin 767s remain in service.
- 76A configuration is 30J/50Y+/134Y, total of 214; fleet to consist of 17 ships (former 3-cabin 767s).
- 76L configuration is 46J/22PE/47Y+/52Y; fleet to consist of 21 ships (18 former 2-cabin 76C and 3 used ships from Hawaiian).

767-400ER - [16 aircraft] None updated yet; modifications put on hold due to Covid-19.

777-200ER - As of September 2020, 46 of the 50 aircraft have been reconfigured with Polaris and Premium Plus seats.
- Configuration is 50 Polaris seats, 32 in the front cabin and 18 in the second cabin (behind 2L/R)
- Configuration is 10 across in economy, with 24 Premium Plus seats, 46 86 E+ seats and 156 E seats, with E+ in front economy cabin plus exit rows and bulkhead at 3L/R, i.e., almost the same as current pmCO planes, except with 4 seats in middle section.
- Seat map (v5) on united.com

787-8, 787-9 - As of November 2022, all 787-8/9 are converted or in mod. No chance of flying old configuration anymore.
- 788 configuration has 28 Polaris seats (20 in front cabin, 8 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
- 789 configuration has 48 Polaris seats (32 in front cabin, 16 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).

787-10 - 13 787-10s have been delivered in 2020. All come with Polaris and Premium Plus cabins factory-installed. Another 19 should be added by 2024.

FAQ:
Q: Does a Polaris ticket mean the aircraft has the new Polaris seat?

A: No, Polaris is the label UA uses for long haul international business class. It is also the label UA uses for the new seats, so this does create some confusion.
All the 773s and 787-10s are 100% the new seat.
The rest of the long haul fleet in various stages of conversion, see http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3

Q: How to tell if my aircraft is the new style Polaris seats?
A: If the unassigned business class section is showing orange seats or all the seats are side-by-side or there is a section for 4 adjacent seats in the middle, this is an old style lie-flat aircreaft
If the unassigned bussines class seats are dark blue seats or the all the seats appear to have direct aisle access, then you aircraft is the new Polaris seat.
You can also look at the FT maintained, United Fleet Site and crosscheck the tail number or check thePolaris Update tab

Q: How to tell if my aircraft has the new PremiumPlus (PP) / Premium Economy seats?
A: If the unassigned seats just behind business class are purple seats or the aircraft is 773 or 787-10, then yes. However, the purple color seat will only show on routes where PP is being sold.
Aircraft with PP seats are being used on some routes but are not being sold as PP. In those cases, the seats are considered to be a part of E+. In those cases, an indicator of PP sold as E+ will be if the first few rows of economy, there are just 2 seats on the sides (with the rest of E+ showing 3 seats).

Q: Will the aircraft I see at booking be the same configuration at flight time?
A: Unfortunately with the fleet in transit, aircraft swaps happen. UA tends to use placeholders until 2 days before travel and even after that last minute swaps do happen.

Q: My flight seat map shows 772 with polaris seats is it a retrofit?
A: Possibly. The flight status page shows the most accurate scheduled aircraft. If a 77W is swapped in, it will list the aircraft as 777-300ER. However, if the 772's seatmap shows blue rectangular boxes in the business class cabin instead of orange "pointy rounds", this would indicate that a retrofit aircraft has been swapped.

See also: United Future/Changed Routes w/ Polaris seats

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✨ Polaris (& PP) Retrofits: Schedule, ....

Old Mar 19, 18, 9:01 pm
  #841  
 
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Originally Posted by Meola10
there is NO SUCH THING as a Polaris seat. The name of the class is Polaris Business. Do you walk in to an sUA aircraft and complain “This is not a BusinessFirst seat” since it is a different seat than the BusinessFirst class seat on the 787???
I think the disappointment level wouldn't be as high as it is, if United wouldn't keep flaunting their new seats and lounges in their advertising materials, or made false promises as to their intended roll-out.
You have to admit it is somewhat frustrating to see their nice seats and lounges plastered on the IFE screen whilst sitting in the middle of a 2-4-2 in J and having just been to one of EWR's current UC lounges at peak times!
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Last edited by WineCountryUA; Mar 19, 18 at 9:50 pm Reason: Quote updated to reflect Moderator edit
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Old Mar 19, 18, 9:05 pm
  #842  
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Originally Posted by Meola10
there is NO SUCH THING as a Polaris seat.
UA disagrees with you.



If you're going to shout, it's probably a good idea not to be so spectacularly WRONG
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Old Mar 19, 18, 9:28 pm
  #843  
 
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Originally Posted by Meola10
It’s been almost 11 months since the new business class seat has been available on international markets and there are now amost 20 aircraft equipped with the seats.
Do you think that seats can be swapped out overnight on the retrofitted aircraft? There is an insane amount of work to be done to prepare the cabin for the new seats and the remainder of the aircraft (767) is also undergoing refurbishment and maintenance checks at the same time.
there is NO SUCH THING as a Polaris seat. The name of the class is Polaris Business. Do you walk in to an sUA aircraft and complain “This is not a BusinessFirst seat” since it is a different seat than the BusinessFirst class seat on the 787???
The new seat has been available to the public for 14 months. Only 5 aircraft have been retrofit. The ineptitude falls on UA with regards to their marketing team not talking to fleet ops. Only 14 767s will get the new seats at this time. 0 of 55 772s have new seats, but they have polaris. No plans for 2 class 767s, 787s (saying they are planned is not a plan), 757s.

The 787s will miss the boat wrt heavy maintenance check downtime opportunity. Amtrakusa could be correct the seats could have weight issues but with heavy checks 5 to 6 years apart I doubt UA pulls them mid cycle for seats.

The issue that most here have is that timelines were either ambitious, shifted or elongated intentionally. No one knows for sure but the way 2017 came and went with very little progress in the hard product front does not bode well that UA will complete the project without eroding goodwill or giving up completely. Maybe as others have stated, UA does not see revenue premium from the new seats.

Lastly, by your logic UA should stop replacing seats as all aircraft have "polaris". Well there we have it folks shut down this thread retrofits are complete all they needed was a name change.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Mar 19, 18 at 9:51 pm Reason: Quote updated to reflect Moderator edit
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Old Mar 19, 18, 9:44 pm
  #844  
 
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Originally Posted by porciuscato
Do you have any evidence saying that? Here's the quote from United's original press release:



They're 0 for 8 on that promise. A subsequent press release said the SFO lounge would be open in "late 2017." Another one said "early 2018." And now it's "summer of 2018" Do you really think a company with that crappy track record is going to deliver now? Note that the other 4 lounges have dropped off the schedule altogether. I'll bet you they never happen at all. I (foolishly) ticketed an intl flight through SFO in late August. Bet you the lounge still isn't open at that point.

The only thing United has been successful at rolling out is high density, 10-across 777s. No delays putting those out there!
United will continue failing to deliver until our government allows competition in the industry. Bring on Norwegian, the ME 3, Singapore, Air Asia!
LOOK, no one is asking you to fly united. if you think United is bait and switch, then don't come here and don't fly united. Another person is happy to take your seat.

on construction, not sure what your experience with construction and remodeling is, delay is not unheard of, sometimes redesign needs to happen. I don't need to show you any evidence about SFO. Whether you believe it not, nobody cares.

10-seat high density 777 project is much simpler than Polaris, does not even compare. Anybody put those two together doesn't even know anything about Polaris Retrofit.

the bottom line is by the end of this year, there will be around 50 United Long Haul airplanes with Polaris (either retrofit or new). That is not slow by any means. the majority of long haul fleet will be complete by 2020.

Originally Posted by narvik
"Insane concept" you say? Accurate description say I.

I think the disappointment level wouldn't be as high as it is, if United wouldn't keep flaunting their new seats and lounges in their advertising materials, or made false promises as to their intended roll-out.
You have to admit it is somewhat frustrating to see their nice seats and lounges plastered on the IFE screen whilst sitting in the middle of a 2-4-2 in J and having just been to one of EWR's current UC lounges at peak times!
look, that is just because you are based in EWR. If you are based in SFO, you will say very different things. The program has to start somewhere and end somewhere. It just happens it will start in SFO, and end in EWR.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Mar 19, 18 at 10:06 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
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Old Mar 19, 18, 9:47 pm
  #845  
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Originally Posted by amtrakusa
the bottom line is by the end of this year, there will be around 50 United Long Haul airplanes with Polaris (either retrofit or new). That is not slow by any means. the majority of long haul fleet will be complete by 2020.
I heard the check is in the mail, too.
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Old Mar 19, 18, 9:48 pm
  #846  
 
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Originally Posted by EWR764
Hardly a standard to which we should hold major mod programs... but then again, this is in United's DNA!!
IPTE was pretty advanced when it came out. And United was the first major US airline with all flat long haul business.

Originally Posted by Halo117
that answer is yes. As the first 772s were expected 4th qtr 2017. While the 788/9s were expected during heavy maintenance checks during 2018. UA has gone silent on those birds. Keep in mind what I state is what was announced early on and was changed. I guess i could apologize and say united didn' t know how much space they needed on the aircraft
I don't know about original schedule. if it is really true first 772 was expected "4th qtr 2017", then it is not really that bad, because the first 772 is pretty much done in Xiamen right now, just waiting for certification. So i will give it to you, it is one quarter late, which is hardly anything.

the 772 will look great. just like the retrofitted 767, which is pretty much the best 767 to fly in the world right now.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Mar 19, 18 at 10:05 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
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Old Mar 19, 18, 9:55 pm
  #847  
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Maybe Kirby has cut down funding per quarter for the retrofits and other capital expenses, to really slow things down.
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Old Mar 19, 18, 10:01 pm
  #848  
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Originally Posted by Meola10
Do you walk in to an sUA aircraft and complain This is not a BusinessFirst seat since it is a different seat than the BusinessFirst class seat on the 787???
I'd never say that because the name BusinessFirst has thankfully gone the way of the dodo.
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Old Mar 19, 18, 10:04 pm
  #849  
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Old Mar 19, 18, 10:26 pm
  #850  
 
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Originally Posted by amtrakusa
LOOK, no one is asking you to fly united.
Correct. They don't need to because I don't have a choice. United has a monopoly from my airport to the only nearby hub.

Originally Posted by amtrakusa
if you think United is bait and switch, then don't come here and don't fly united. Another person is happy to take your seat..
Partially correct. I wouldn't say they are happy to take my seat: they just don't have a choice either.

Together we can fix that by pushing for Open Skies and an end to United's monopoly in many regional markets and an end to "fotress hubs" which are simply a means to rob consumers blind. The service you get when businesses actually have to compete can be quite incredible. I see this every day in the hotel business. The service you get at even lower end places - (e.g. HI Express and Hampton Inn) is really quite amazing. Let's make the same thing happen for U.S. airlines.

If United actually had to compete, you can bet those Polaris lounges and real Polaris seats would get rolled out in a heartbeat. But since they don't have to compete, they're going to slow walk it. The bottom line is until we consumers wake up and do something, they don't need to be better. And they know it.
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Old Mar 19, 18, 10:42 pm
  #851  
 
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Originally Posted by amtrakusa
...the 772 will look great...
This thread is about Polaris, so yeah, I absolutely agree with you.

The retrofitted 772 in Y, however.......not so much!
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Old Mar 20, 18, 6:14 am
  #852  
 
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Originally Posted by wco81
Maybe Kirby has cut down funding per quarter for the retrofits and other capital expenses, to really slow things down.
Theres been no announced reduction in capital expenses. The spending on lounges and seats is small compared to new aircraft and ground equipment.

The first type, like 77-200ER, always takes longer, usually than expected, as youre revising engineering and completing certification. The entire process has also been slowed by availability of seats themselves. Its not nearly as bad as what happened to AA, but the seats are slow.

Airport construction work is also quite slow. Theres a lot of comparison to AA here too. The difference is that all of the PL include new and expanded space while AA FL were all reconfiguration of existing space. New space requires more engineering and infrastructure work, which has to take place without disrupting airport operations. If the studs are up, the finish work can go fairly quickly.
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Old Mar 20, 18, 6:35 am
  #853  
 
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Originally Posted by amtrakusa
IPTE was pretty advanced when it came out. And United was the first major US airline with all flat long haul business.
Im talking about the speed of retrofits... the last 777 was completed about six (6) years from the date of the initial product announcement.
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Old Mar 20, 18, 7:08 am
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Polaris 767 (76A) #6 should be back in the system within the next week or two.
Once N646UA returns to service and a IPTE 767 replaces it at HKG, there will be more 76A in service than 3-cabin 767s.
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Old Mar 20, 18, 2:45 pm
  #855  
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As this is aircraft Polaris seat retrofit thread, have moved the discussion of non-aircraft items (such as Polaris Lounge rollout) to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unit...s-lounges.html

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