May 29, 2017, 1:21 pm
Last edit by: kirkwoodj
Check the current status of aircraft reconfigured (or delivered) with new Polaris seats: http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3.
A Polaris Update and Polaris Mod Schedule to indicate the status of specific aircraft are maintained by those that manage the United Airlines Fleet Website.
Except for 773- and 781-operated flights, and those markets selling Premium Plus, Polaris-equipped planes have not been allocated to specific routes. You won't know until approx. 36-48 hours before departure if you'll have a newly reconfigured aircraft, and even then, it may be replaced with a non-retrofitted aircraft.
777-300ER - All 22 aircraft have Polaris (60 seats) and installation of Premium Plus cabins (24 seats) is complete.
767-300ER - As of September 2020, 31 of the 38 aircraft have been reconfigured with the Polaris seats.
- Retrofit is from 3-cabin to 2-cabin with direct-aisle-access seats. No 3-cabin 767s remain in service.
- 76A configuration is 30J/50Y+/134Y, total of 214; fleet to consist of 17 ships (former 3-cabin 767s).
- 76L configuration is 46J/22PE/47Y+/52Y; fleet to consist of 21 ships (18 former 2-cabin 76C and 3 used ships from Hawaiian).
767-400ER - [16 aircraft] None updated yet; modifications put on hold due to Covid-19.
777-200ER - As of September 2020, 46 of the 50 aircraft have been reconfigured with Polaris and Premium Plus seats.
- Configuration is 50 Polaris seats, 32 in the front cabin and 18 in the second cabin (behind 2L/R)
- Configuration is 10 across in economy, with 24 Premium Plus seats, 4686 E+ seats and 156 E seats, with E+ in front economy cabin plus exit rows and bulkhead at 3L/R, i.e., almost the same as current pmCO planes, except with 4 seats in middle section.
- Seat map (v5) on united.com
787-8, 787-9 - As of November 2022, all 787-8/9 are converted or in mod. No chance of flying old configuration anymore.
- 788 configuration has 28 Polaris seats (20 in front cabin, 8 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
- 789 configuration has 48 Polaris seats (32 in front cabin, 16 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
787-10 - 13 787-10s have been delivered in 2020. All come with Polaris and Premium Plus cabins factory-installed. Another 19 should be added by 2024.
FAQ:
Q: Does a Polaris ticket mean the aircraft has the new Polaris seat?
A: No, Polaris is the label UA uses for long haul international business class. It is also the label UA uses for the new seats, so this does create some confusion.
All the 773s and 787-10s are 100% the new seat.
The rest of the long haul fleet in various stages of conversion, see http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3
Q: How to tell if my aircraft is the new style Polaris seats?
A: If the unassigned business class section is showing orange seats or all the seats are side-by-side or there is a section for 4 adjacent seats in the middle, this is an old style lie-flat aircreaft
If the unassigned bussines class seats are dark blue seats or the all the seats appear to have direct aisle access, then you aircraft is the new Polaris seat.
You can also look at the FT maintained, United Fleet Site and crosscheck the tail number or check thePolaris Update tab
Q: How to tell if my aircraft has the new PremiumPlus (PP) / Premium Economy seats?
A: If the unassigned seats just behind business class are purple seats or the aircraft is 773 or 787-10, then yes. However, the purple color seat will only show on routes where PP is being sold.
Aircraft with PP seats are being used on some routes but are not being sold as PP. In those cases, the seats are considered to be a part of E+. In those cases, an indicator of PP sold as E+ will be if the first few rows of economy, there are just 2 seats on the sides (with the rest of E+ showing 3 seats).
Q: Will the aircraft I see at booking be the same configuration at flight time?
A: Unfortunately with the fleet in transit, aircraft swaps happen. UA tends to use placeholders until 2 days before travel and even after that last minute swaps do happen.
Q: My flight seat map shows 772 with polaris seats is it a retrofit?
A: Possibly. The flight status page shows the most accurate scheduled aircraft. If a 77W is swapped in, it will list the aircraft as 777-300ER. However, if the 772's seatmap shows blue rectangular boxes in the business class cabin instead of orange "pointy rounds", this would indicate that a retrofit aircraft has been swapped.
See also: United Future/Changed Routes w/ Polaris seats
A Polaris Update and Polaris Mod Schedule to indicate the status of specific aircraft are maintained by those that manage the United Airlines Fleet Website.
Except for 773- and 781-operated flights, and those markets selling Premium Plus, Polaris-equipped planes have not been allocated to specific routes. You won't know until approx. 36-48 hours before departure if you'll have a newly reconfigured aircraft, and even then, it may be replaced with a non-retrofitted aircraft.
777-300ER - All 22 aircraft have Polaris (60 seats) and installation of Premium Plus cabins (24 seats) is complete.
767-300ER - As of September 2020, 31 of the 38 aircraft have been reconfigured with the Polaris seats.
- Retrofit is from 3-cabin to 2-cabin with direct-aisle-access seats. No 3-cabin 767s remain in service.
- 76A configuration is 30J/50Y+/134Y, total of 214; fleet to consist of 17 ships (former 3-cabin 767s).
- 76L configuration is 46J/22PE/47Y+/52Y; fleet to consist of 21 ships (18 former 2-cabin 76C and 3 used ships from Hawaiian).
767-400ER - [16 aircraft] None updated yet; modifications put on hold due to Covid-19.
777-200ER - As of September 2020, 46 of the 50 aircraft have been reconfigured with Polaris and Premium Plus seats.
- Configuration is 50 Polaris seats, 32 in the front cabin and 18 in the second cabin (behind 2L/R)
- Configuration is 10 across in economy, with 24 Premium Plus seats, 46
- Seat map (v5) on united.com
787-8, 787-9 - As of November 2022, all 787-8/9 are converted or in mod. No chance of flying old configuration anymore.
- 788 configuration has 28 Polaris seats (20 in front cabin, 8 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
- 789 configuration has 48 Polaris seats (32 in front cabin, 16 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
787-10 - 13 787-10s have been delivered in 2020. All come with Polaris and Premium Plus cabins factory-installed. Another 19 should be added by 2024.
FAQ:
Q: Does a Polaris ticket mean the aircraft has the new Polaris seat?
A: No, Polaris is the label UA uses for long haul international business class. It is also the label UA uses for the new seats, so this does create some confusion.
All the 773s and 787-10s are 100% the new seat.
The rest of the long haul fleet in various stages of conversion, see http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3
Q: How to tell if my aircraft is the new style Polaris seats?
A: If the unassigned business class section is showing orange seats or all the seats are side-by-side or there is a section for 4 adjacent seats in the middle, this is an old style lie-flat aircreaft
If the unassigned bussines class seats are dark blue seats or the all the seats appear to have direct aisle access, then you aircraft is the new Polaris seat.
You can also look at the FT maintained, United Fleet Site and crosscheck the tail number or check thePolaris Update tab
Q: How to tell if my aircraft has the new PremiumPlus (PP) / Premium Economy seats?
A: If the unassigned seats just behind business class are purple seats or the aircraft is 773 or 787-10, then yes. However, the purple color seat will only show on routes where PP is being sold.
Aircraft with PP seats are being used on some routes but are not being sold as PP. In those cases, the seats are considered to be a part of E+. In those cases, an indicator of PP sold as E+ will be if the first few rows of economy, there are just 2 seats on the sides (with the rest of E+ showing 3 seats).
Q: Will the aircraft I see at booking be the same configuration at flight time?
A: Unfortunately with the fleet in transit, aircraft swaps happen. UA tends to use placeholders until 2 days before travel and even after that last minute swaps do happen.
Q: My flight seat map shows 772 with polaris seats is it a retrofit?
A: Possibly. The flight status page shows the most accurate scheduled aircraft. If a 77W is swapped in, it will list the aircraft as 777-300ER. However, if the 772's seatmap shows blue rectangular boxes in the business class cabin instead of orange "pointy rounds", this would indicate that a retrofit aircraft has been swapped.
See also: United Future/Changed Routes w/ Polaris seats
✨ Polaris (& PP) Retrofits: Schedule, ....
Mar 31, 2021, 12:14 am
#2371
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,462
Great question and reasoning. Given that I also had expected the 789s to be ahead of the 788s. In addition to the long-haul routes, it would have ensured fleet consistency sooner, since new 789s with true Polaris were delivered concurrently.
Mar 31, 2021, 12:42 am
#2372
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: TOA
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott LTPP/Platinum Premier, Hyatt Lame-ist, UA !K
Posts: 20,061
David
Mar 31, 2021, 1:38 am
#2373
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Delaware
Programs: UA Mileage Plus, Amtrak Guest Rewards
Posts: 1,392
An accounting factor could come into play here as well: Depreciation,
1. The 787s, specifically the 9s, were UA’s last wide-body aircraft to have the old seats factory installed. If UA had fully depreciated the value of the seats in the older aircraft, but not yet on the 787s, or even if they used the accelerated depreciation method, which allows for more depreciation in the beginning of the life of an item, there would be a tax advantage to replacing the older seats first, the ones with less book value, while reaping depreciation benefits on the newer seats (the newer of the old version) with a higher book value.
2. Along the same lines, installing Polaris on the older birds first would allow UA more time to depreciate the Polaris seats before completely retiring or selling the aircraft.
1. The 787s, specifically the 9s, were UA’s last wide-body aircraft to have the old seats factory installed. If UA had fully depreciated the value of the seats in the older aircraft, but not yet on the 787s, or even if they used the accelerated depreciation method, which allows for more depreciation in the beginning of the life of an item, there would be a tax advantage to replacing the older seats first, the ones with less book value, while reaping depreciation benefits on the newer seats (the newer of the old version) with a higher book value.
2. Along the same lines, installing Polaris on the older birds first would allow UA more time to depreciate the Polaris seats before completely retiring or selling the aircraft.
Mar 31, 2021, 5:10 am
#2374
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,441
An accounting factor could come into play here as well: Depreciation,
1. The 787s, specifically the 9s, were UA’s last wide-body aircraft to have the old seats factory installed. If UA had fully depreciated the value of the seats in the older aircraft, but not yet on the 787s, or even if they used the accelerated depreciation method, which allows for more depreciation in the beginning of the life of an item, there would be a tax advantage to replacing the older seats first, the ones with less book value, while reaping depreciation benefits on the newer seats (the newer of the old version) with a higher book value.
2. Along the same lines, installing Polaris on the older birds first would allow UA more time to depreciate the Polaris seats before completely retiring or selling the aircraft.
1. The 787s, specifically the 9s, were UA’s last wide-body aircraft to have the old seats factory installed. If UA had fully depreciated the value of the seats in the older aircraft, but not yet on the 787s, or even if they used the accelerated depreciation method, which allows for more depreciation in the beginning of the life of an item, there would be a tax advantage to replacing the older seats first, the ones with less book value, while reaping depreciation benefits on the newer seats (the newer of the old version) with a higher book value.
2. Along the same lines, installing Polaris on the older birds first would allow UA more time to depreciate the Polaris seats before completely retiring or selling the aircraft.
Plus, there’s not really such a thing as “high yield international (passenger) travel” right now, at least with the sort of volume that was customary pre-COVID. Still, it looks like UA is planning to resume 787-9 retrofits once the 788 fleet is finished.
Apr 1, 2021, 10:37 am
#2376
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,733
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 1, 2021 at 2:15 pm Reason: typo
Apr 1, 2021, 12:23 pm
#2378
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 5,446
The chance SFO-MUC non-stop actually operates 3 July 2021 aside, no one here can give a substantive answer -- but can say of 6 unconverted 763, 3 are parked, 1 is in maintenance (HKG -- since Feb) and 2 are operating -- while there are 14 converted to 30 Polaris seat J, no PP and 17 convert to High-J
Apr 2, 2021, 2:10 am
#2379
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Delaware
Programs: UA Mileage Plus, Amtrak Guest Rewards
Posts: 1,392
The chance EWR-MUC non-stop actually operates 3 July 2021 aside, no one here can give a substantive answer -- but can say of 6 unconverted 763, 3 are parked, 1 is in maintenance (HKG -- since Feb) and 2 are operating -- while there are 14 converted to 30 Polaris seat J, no PP and 17 convert to High-J
UA is pretty much forced to only sell 24 J seats for any 788 flight. If the older configuration is used, it then upgrades any elites, lets the seats go empty, or occasionally will try and upsell them at the gate. Also, the two birds in the older configuration, without W class, make it difficult to sell that class on any 788 flight because of the possibility of having to downgrade and disappoint an entire cabin of PE flyers if one of the older birds is used.
All of this means UA is prioritizing the 788 fleet to get that 100% consistent and be able to sell a full plane without any chance of downgrades.
Apr 13, 2021, 10:59 pm
#2380
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Delaware
Programs: UA Mileage Plus, Amtrak Guest Rewards
Posts: 1,392
According to Flightaware, 788 N27901 is due to exit XMN on Friday as UA 2764 to NRT.
UA.com shows 2764(16) as a 788 with Polaris / PE seats.
Also, 788 N27903 is destined to arrive in NRT on Friday(16) with no farther points loaded, indicating a possible swap.
Looking forward, N26902 went to XMN on the same day that N27091 did, back on 28Feb21. Assuming that one exits early next week, room will be made for the final 788 MOD, N45905.
UA.com shows 2764(16) as a 788 with Polaris / PE seats.
Also, 788 N27903 is destined to arrive in NRT on Friday(16) with no farther points loaded, indicating a possible swap.
Looking forward, N26902 went to XMN on the same day that N27091 did, back on 28Feb21. Assuming that one exits early next week, room will be made for the final 788 MOD, N45905.
Apr 15, 2021, 2:00 am
#2381
Join Date: Jan 2000
Programs: UA 1k, AA EXPLT, NZ GE, VA PLT Hyatt Diam, Marr Plat, HH Diam
Posts: 3,445
I understand why UA would want to rapidly upgrade aircraft within a fleet type (eg, 788), so as to minimize disruptions due tomdofferent capacities, but would have thought it better to prioritize the ability to sell P+ on its long haul aircraft (789), rather than its short-haul aircraft (788). The 6 hour transatlantics are more likely to have pax wanting to “downgrade” from C to PE, which is much less likely on ultra long haul flights to Asia/Pac. And, likely more Y pax willing to pay a healthy amount to “upgrade” their experience from Y to PE zone a 14h flight than a 6h one. You should see the PE $ yield premiums that NZ and QF get on their long-haul flights! I don’t understand why UA ultra long haul aircraft are towards the end of the Polaris mod program.
Apr 15, 2021, 2:55 am
#2382
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Delaware
Programs: UA Mileage Plus, Amtrak Guest Rewards
Posts: 1,392
Well, first read my post No. 2277 about depreciation.
Second, how many ULH flights are really operating now, and how many of them are running with a fill 787-9? With as many cargo-only flights as UA is operating, the 14 Polaris 787-9s in service are more than enough to handle the passenger operated flights that require a 789 (Remember, AUS flights are only selling J seats so no need for a Polaris bird there.
Third, Having to sell the lower of 24 J seats (Polaris version) and 195 Y seats (an old version has 183 Y + 12 upgrades) to match the lower capacity of the older model, in order to prevent IDBs or downgrades on the 788 a lot more costly than the minimal revenue lost by upgrading 21 Y+ pax int W seats on the 789.
Second, how many ULH flights are really operating now, and how many of them are running with a fill 787-9? With as many cargo-only flights as UA is operating, the 14 Polaris 787-9s in service are more than enough to handle the passenger operated flights that require a 789 (Remember, AUS flights are only selling J seats so no need for a Polaris bird there.
Third, Having to sell the lower of 24 J seats (Polaris version) and 195 Y seats (an old version has 183 Y + 12 upgrades) to match the lower capacity of the older model, in order to prevent IDBs or downgrades on the 788 a lot more costly than the minimal revenue lost by upgrading 21 Y+ pax int W seats on the 789.
Apr 15, 2021, 7:27 am
#2383
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,441
By the time long haul yields meaningfully recover, the 789 Polaris conversion will likely be complete, or close to it. As it stands now, between the 76L, 788s, new configuration 789s and the 777 fleet (at least the GE birds), if a market demands a premium economy product, United has a platform for it at each gauge category.
Again, intercontinental premium demand is virtually nil. United is leaving absolutely nothing on the table right now with its current fleet composition, and 789 Polaris conversions are nevertheless due to resume later this year.
Again, intercontinental premium demand is virtually nil. United is leaving absolutely nothing on the table right now with its current fleet composition, and 789 Polaris conversions are nevertheless due to resume later this year.
Apr 15, 2021, 6:38 pm
#2384
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2003
Programs: UA 1K 1MM (finally!), IHG AMB-Spire, HH Diamond
Posts: 60,145
Super disappointing to see seat maps with the old product on it.
Apr 15, 2021, 7:10 pm
#2385
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,733
Cute? As has been suggested multiple times, there are various reasons. The most likely is early scraping the prior seats will lead to a financial hit due to depreciate tax rules. May not be cute but it is a really issue.
Conversion continues, just for other older aircraft and the 789 will get done -- and as you suggest, it is not creating any major issues doing the other aircraft first.
Conversion continues, just for other older aircraft and the 789 will get done -- and as you suggest, it is not creating any major issues doing the other aircraft first.
