JBord

This is not true in the PQD model, where $ spent counts. Someone who spends $30k/year can receive far fewer benefits than someone who spends $12k/year. And I'm not talking about someone who isn't loyal because they get there on 2 F tickets. It could be someone who flies 70 segments a year up and down the east coast.

Someone who potentially flies more segments and pays more is arguably a more loyal, and more desirable customer than a 1K who spends $12k.

I understand the argument for raising PQD, but I'd rather see them bring greater equality to the program first.

Bruin1K

I would gladly accept if UA copies DL's 15k as long as they also give the cc waiver!
People keep forgetting that DL does provide the CC waiver Diamond status

bmustaf

Well, yes, but the DL card is an AmEx, and the economics of their AmEx deal is almost certainly much more lucrative than the Chase Visa products with UA (no one knows for sure, but just look at the merchant fees and you can see this is is not even a comparison).

So, it's not really apples to apples if you consider the economics here.

rowenb

(1) So you think putting kettles with credit cards in Group 2 is ok but putting Silver's there isn't?

(2) I think putting Golds in Group 1 would make more sense than kicking the Plats out. I hardly ever fly hub-to-hub, mind you, so I'm used to seeing sparse Group 1 lines and massive Group 2 lines.

(3) I would be more sympathetic to raising the 1K PQD bar above $12K if United were to simultaneously make another change: Allow elites who bought tickets through corporate travel agencies to do GG BUYUP type things without United officially having to take over the ticket, or charge a fee.

Artpen100

I would have thought that a lot of the early boarders are people who purchased first or businessfirst. And a lot of those may also be plat or 1K - buying first is how a lot of us managed to get all those PQDs. However, it has also seemed to me to vary widely whether there are few in group 1 or a lot in it. Totally depends on the route.

I will probably finish with about 125K PQM and $15K PQD this year, with several purchases in higher fare classes in international, but from picking price and routes, not chasing status. I will fly another airline if it is a better price and route (just flew DL last week). GPUs might make me take UA a time or two I might not otherwise - if R is available. I do go to a lot of trouble to monitor for R space.

laxmillenial

1. I believe United's rational for putting kettles with CC in group 2 is that they market 'priority boarding'. I would also bet that many United CC holders spend >3k a year, hence proving that they are somewhat valuable in United's eyes.

2. No. Putting the Gold's in group 1 would make the line absolutely horrible. Worst decision ever and I think most people in Flyertalk would agree with this. Just go look at a Hub/Hub route the next time you're in the airport. Group 1 is easily sometimes the longest. In fact, there were so many GS/1K's on my recent ORD- > LAX flight that I was told I might not get my free BOB food item choice and if I would mind picking something else. I was in the 2nd row of economy plus!!! Now imagine if this was an ORD -> SFO flight.

3. I think inevitably, the 12K threshold will rise. I agree with you here, but airlines have played the 'nickel and dime' game for years to increase revenue and I don't expect this to stop anytime in the near future.

Cargojon

This is bordering on getting off topic but IMO they need 1k and F/J in group 1, plat/gold in group 2, and silver/cc holder in group 3. Kettles in 4

My flight to FRA the other week had 2/3 of the flight in groups 1-2. Group 2 was a mob. Ridiculous

iced

I can see the PQD requirement being too low if someone flies several paid international business flights a year, but this becomes problematic for the "domestic" 1Ks out there (myself included) who attain 1K through 90% domestic travel. The PQD is much more difficult to attain when many segments are literally TOD worth of PQD, and given I can fly 150k miles a year and barely make $12k PQD, I can't even imagine the path to $25k via domestic flights.

I get United values the revenue that people who have employers who reimburse paid J international fares generate, but I think Platinum *could* be a very viable solution for the domestic 1K flyer, but not as it's structured today. Treating them like Silver only helps create an atmosphere where there's 1K and then there's everyone else and United could lose its domestic 1K base in the process.

The G1 lines are clogged with just as many 1Ks as there are Plats, so booting them isn't going to solve much. As a 1K, I'm often barely cracking the top 10 on the UG list, including being #4 on an M fare earlier this week. On a plane with 16 F seats, that means there would be at least around 25 people in G1. Plats fly enough to deserve some love, so relegating them to a line with CC holders is an insult. As few people are left in G3-5, and given how empty G4 is (single flyers in a middle seat are pretty much it), put Plat/Gold in G2 and Silver/*G/CC in G3, window G4 and middle/aisle G5.

Give Plats a free drink OR snack. They fly a lot too. Let them earn RPUs every 25k after 75k instead of having to make 1K.

If they valued Platinum a bit more, I'd feel fine with watching the 1K tier soar up to $25k.

bmustaf

1) Yes, in the sense that if the issue is an "overcrowding" of G1 simply cascading Plats to G2 just shifts the issue, so cascading 2P to General Boarding alleviates that (the whole Plat thing is a CO thing I've never really understood, and with the new MP changes around fees et al it seems that UA management is putting a target on Plats' backs, anyway).

The more people that are boarded according to where they are seated and not their status and the fewer that are serving as human roadblocks to a mathematically optimal boarding *will* speed up boarding, so perhaps it's harsh, but yes, I think 2P moves to G3-5 according to seat map.

As for the CC crowd, well, the credit card agreements are multi-year and contractual and can't just be whimsically changed without penalty like the MP program can, that is why I've remained mute on credit cards status and waivers in all this. We can wish all we want, but that stuff is functionally set in stone for a while. I'd say G1 goes Premium Cabin & 1K and G2 is Plat & 1P if this is actually about making G1/G2 a reasonable size.

2) I fly a lot of Hub-to-hub and spoke routes (I live off of one, actually) and I do see sparse G1 lines but, remember, these are typically smaller aircraft, so as a %age of pax load I don't think these are THAT much smaller (they are smaller as a %age, that is true, but not as much as meets the eye). And, so what if G1 is small, isn't that the point of offering that as a perk/benefit? It helps no one when it means nothing, and actually just fills the cabin with more human roadblocks to logistically effective boarding.

3) Well, this (on paper) sounds reasonable to me (which instantly means UA probably would never do it ), but coming from the perspective of "UA has to run a (very complex) business" I wonder what impact that has on revenue management and bucket balance, as GG BUYUP effectively skews that if done in any volume. I don't know the answer but I suspect there are substantive reasons why this isn't a feasible lever to allow people to play with.

(1) So you think putting kettles with credit cards in Group 2 is ok but putting Silver's there isn't?

(2) I think putting Golds in Group 1 would make more sense than kicking the Plats out. I hardly ever fly hub-to-hub, mind you, so I'm used to seeing sparse Group 1 lines and massive Group 2 lines.

(3) I would be more sympathetic to raising the 1K PQD bar above $12K if United were to simultaneously make another change: Allow elites who bought tickets through corporate travel agencies to do GG BUYUP type things without United officially having to take over the ticket, or charge a fee.

CO_Nonrev_elite

You could make the line be $2,000,000 and it won't change anything on the available upgrades as "too many" 1K or GS members is not the problem. The issue is the upsell to anyone who wants to pay the reduced amount into the cabin.

I have literally given up on CPU (which is what United intended). I just pay the reduced buyup amounts into the F cabin. Usually significantly less than buying F outright. Certainly enjoying the $249 buyups on IAD-SFO right into the F cabin on the 777.

bmustaf

But if there are "just as many 1Ks as there are Plats" clogging G1, wouldn't that net a pretty good reduction, then? I don't have formal stats on this but while I do see a lot of 1K in G1 I see a lot of Plat, too (yes, I creepily ogle people's BPs and baggage tags, which is a funny people watching exercise, it's hilarious to me that people actually put those on the outside of their bags, but I digress).

I think the whole point is that there is a group of people who think 1K should be easier to make and ones that think it should be harder to make. Isn't that why Plat was kept during the merger, as an in-between to please CO elites but also provide a bridge?

As long as this wonky Plat level exists and Plats are in G1 I think the bar can be raised without much impact.

1K should not be easy nor should it be frequent. And UA *IS* a for-profit business. I think bumping to $15,000 at least is a good move (esp if Plat is going to continue to exist), so I guess I ultimately agree with you despite slightly contradicting myself from a previous post/up above in this one where I say Plat is kinda useless (I don't see it as contradiction as much as a validation that in its current from Plat either needs to move up the value chain - where it stands now it's kind of in a weird no [wo]man's land).

Hipplewm

Also rollover PQM - Fly 250K PQM in a year, enjoy Diamond for 2 years - no PQD if you meet CC waiver

Plus you still get to choose your gift each year

COSPILOT

You could make 1K minimum spend 50K, nothing would change with regard to BG1, as that includes Platinum members. Your upgrades wouldn't improve, because a 1K on a higher fare already gets priority over a 1K on a lower cost ticket, so again, nothing gained by changing spend thresholds.

So to the OP, what do you expect would change if spend requirements for 1K increased?

If it's BG1, that would require a change for Platinum to have any impact, something that wouldn't go over well for that group. If it's upgrades, I would argue that UA is selling them a little too cheap, undermining not only CPU's, but RPU's and GPU's as well.

malgudi

No, it should be $100k.

Ditto for the other levels as well: $25k, $50k, $75k ...

/snark

Don't really see the point you're trying to make

mahasamatman

FlyerTalk is not representative of any larger population.