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Need help (another "significant or marketing carrier" baggage allowance question)

Need help (another "significant or marketing carrier" baggage allowance question)

Old Aug 15, 2016, 8:16 am
  #1  
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Need help (another "significant or marketing carrier" baggage allowance question)

I don't know why I am finding this so complicated

I'm flying R/T on a 016 ticket SFO-SIN on a biz class P fare, then SIN-DPS in Economy -- all on one ticket.
Which means both most significant carrier and marketing carrier are UA, correct?

So, on my return, do I get 3 bags @50 lbs or 3@70 lbs?

When I plug in my itinerary to the UA baggage calculator I get:
DPS to SFO economy
Up to 62.0 linear inches (157cm) L + W + H and 70.0 lbs (32 kg) per bag....Check up to three bags at no charge.

But when I put in my booking #:
Denpasar Bali, ID (DPS) to San Francisco, CA, US (SFO)
1st bag $0 2nd bag $0 Weight per bag50.0 lbs (23 kgs)

SQ's site says:
Economy Class To and from the USA and/or Canada: 2 pieces, up to 23kg each... Star Gold 1 extra piece

But then goes on to say: In accordance with the US Department of Transportation's regulations, for travel originating or travel ending in the United States, if the first carrier on your booking is not Singapore Airlines, that carrier’s baggage policy may apply for the whole itinerary....
If your first flight originates from any other US city or the first flight does not have an SQ flight number, the baggage policy of the first carrier may apply to the whole itinerary (per US Department of Transportation rules).


Does "first carrier on my itinerary" mean the FIRST as in UA in SFO?, or do they mean the first on my return, which would be SQ at DPS?
What am I missing here?

Last edited by chavala; Aug 15, 2016 at 8:31 am Reason: sp
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 8:22 am
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Originally Posted by chavala
I don't know why I am finding this so complicated

I'm flying R/T on a 016 ticket SFO-SIN on a biz class P fare, then SIN-DPS in Economy -- all on one ticket.
Which means most both significant carrier and marketing carrier are UA, correct?

So, on my return, do I get 3 bags @50 lbs or 3@70 lbs?

When I plug in my itinerary to the UA baggage calculator I get:
DPS to SFO economy
Up to 62.0 linear inches (157cm) L + W + H and 70.0 lbs (32 kg) per bag....Check up to three bags at no charge.

But when I put in my booking #:
Denpasar Bali, ID (DPS) to San Francisco, CA, US (SFO)
1st bag $0 2nd bag $0 Weight per bag50.0 lbs (23 kgs)

SQ's site says:
Economy Class To and from the USA and/or Canada: 2 pieces, up to 23kg each... Star Gold 1 extra piece

But then goes on to say: In accordance with the US Department of Transportation's regulations, for travel originating or travel ending in the United States, if the first carrier on your booking is not Singapore Airlines, that carriers baggage policy may apply for the whole itinerary....
If your first flight originates from any other US city or the first flight does not have an SQ flight number, the baggage policy of the first carrier may apply to the whole itinerary (per US Department of Transportation rules).


Does "first carrier on my itinerary" mean the FIRST as in UA in SFO?, or do they mean the first on my return, which would be SQ at DPS?
What am I missing here?
I've done exactly your routing (USA to Bali on UA) and I've been allowed UA baggage rules - no issues....
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 10:11 am
  #3  
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Originally Posted by bmwe92fan
I've done exactly your routing (USA to Bali on UA) and I've been allowed UA baggage rules - no issues....
That's great news, thank you! I'll try to print out something official-looking in case I get a YMMV situation and need to squirm my way out of a fee ; )
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 10:24 am
  #4  
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Originally Posted by chavala
Does "first carrier on my itinerary" mean the FIRST as in UA in SFO?
Yes, according to DOT rules.
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 10:52 am
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Are you checking in w/ UA or SQ on the way back? Checking in at UA, you'd still get 3 bags at 70lbs (the 3rd 70-pounder via 1K status). Checking in with SQ, you get the UA-defined (read: non-Premier) bag policy (2 70lb bags), plus "an extra bag" for *G status. If SQ wanted to be annoying, you'd get only a 50lb allowance on third bag.

Last edited by IAH-OIL-TRASH; Aug 15, 2016 at 11:08 am
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 11:15 am
  #6  
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Originally Posted by chavala
I'm flying R/T on a 016 ticket SFO-SIN on a biz class P fare, then SIN-DPS in Economy -- all on one ticket.
Which means both most significant carrier and marketing carrier are UA, correct?
Not enough info. Provided to know. In most cases, if booked through UA directly, it would be UA marketed, but not always. Marketing carrier is known by whose code is before the flight number. If your itinerary says this is UA 1, for example, it's UA marketed. If it says, for example, SQ 5792 (totally made up, this is just as an example), that would be SQ marketing it. US rules say marketing carrier is what matters on flights ex-US, so that's what applies.

Originally Posted by chavala
So, on my return, do I get 3 bags @50 lbs or 3@70 lbs?

When I plug in my itinerary to the UA baggage calculator I get:
DPS to SFO economy
Up to 62.0 linear inches (157cm) L + W + H and 70.0 lbs (32 kg) per bag....Check up to three bags at no charge.
You mean on SFO-DPS, right?

Originally Posted by chavala
Does "first carrier on my itinerary" mean the FIRST as in UA in SFO?, or do they mean the first on my return, which would be SQ at DPS?
What am I missing here?
First means the marketing carrier of the first segment of the itinerary. So if it's booked as UA 1, you should receive UA allowance. Caveat is that UA policy exemptions for elites wouldn't apply when checking in with a carrier that isn't UA - see below.

Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
Are you checking in w/ UA or SQ on the way back? Checking in at UA, you'd still get 3 bags at 70lbs (the 3rd 70-pounder via 1K status). Checking in with SQ, you get the UA-defined bag policy (2 70lb bags), plus "an extra bag" for *G status. If SQ wanted to be annoying, you'd get only a 50lb allowance on third bag.
No - UA policy for non-elites is 2 bags at 50 lbs. (not 70). The 70 lb. limit is extra for elites when traveling on UA. DOT rules don't apply this to the rule where the baggage allowance needs to be carried through the itinerary, AFAIK. So on the return from DPS, OP should get standard UA allowance (2 X 50lbs.) plus one extra bag as a *G at 50 lbs. 3 X 70 lbs would apply on the outbound, per UA policy. Based on the assumption above that OP mixed up origin/destination in the first instance when posting, the UA receipt is correct (and you have to dig in on the site to show the third bag).
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 11:18 am
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FWIW, marketing carrier has nothing to do with the 016 plating - it's whether the flights were booked as codeshare or not.

The "first flight" is first flight of each portion of travel. For your return, it would be DPS-SIN.
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 11:21 am
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Originally Posted by PTahCha
The "first flight" is first flight of each portion of travel. For your return, it would be DPS-SIN.
No it does not.

Per DOT rules, first segment is he first segment of the entire itinerary, and that basis is used for the entire itinerary. If this is booked as a round trip, the regular (non-elite) UA allowance applies when leaving DPS, plus one extra for *G. If booked as separate one ways, only then will SQ allowance apply coming back.
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 11:21 am
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Originally Posted by emcampbe
...No - UA policy for non-elites is 2 bags at 50 lbs. (not 70). The 70 lb. limit is extra for elites when traveling on UA....
No - BF gets 2 70lb bags at UA, general member or Premier. Premier gets the 3 70lb bag.
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 11:23 am
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Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
No - BF gets 2 70lb bags at UA, general member or Premier. Premier gets the 3 70lb bag.
Yikes - missed Biz class. I was thinking Y.
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 11:25 am
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Originally Posted by emcampbe
..I was thinking Y.
I try not to...
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 11:50 am
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Key issue in these discussions is to remember the IATA and DOT rules refer to the standard bag allowance for the tickets (this is typically based on the fare class / cabin). Elite privileges are a separate issue and may or may be granted - not guaranteed by the IATA or DOT. That is at the discretion of the check-in carrier.

So when checking in with UA you will get the better of the MSC/DOT rules and/or your UA elite benefits.

With checking-in with a *A carrier you will get the MSC/DOT rules plus your *A elite benefit. (need to check with the carrier to determine if this is weigh or bag count addition and if the bag count is just 50 lbs or higher).

When checking-in with a non-*A carrier you will get the MSC/DOT rules -- there will be no elite benefits adder in most cases.
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 12:01 pm
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Thanks for the replies. I may be more confused than ever

I bought my ticket thru UA, the tkt # is 016. Paid business P class, but booked the short SIN-DPS hop in E (and saved a thousand bucks).
The SQ portion is NOT a code share, its a SQ #.


Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
Are you checking in w/ UA or SQ on the way back?
I don't know? Can I check in with UA? I doubt it -- I always check in w NH even when its a codeshare. I have flown this route tons but am always on a separate SQ ticket, so I check in w SQ and later w UA. The reservations show as linked once I check my bags.

Originally Posted by emcampbe
You mean on SFO-DPS, right?
Not a typo - sorry if its misleading. I typed DPS-SFO into the calculator because that's the only part I'm concerned about. I know I can have 3@70 on the outbound.
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 12:07 pm
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Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
Key issue in these discussions is to remember the IATA and DOT rules refer to the standard bag allowance for the tickets (this is typically based on the fare class / cabin). Elite privileges are a separate issue and may or may be granted - not guaranteed by the IATA or DOT. That is at the discretion of the check-in carrier.

So when checking in with UA you will get the better of the MSC/DOT rules and/or your UA elite benefits.

With checking-in with a *A carrier you will get the MSC/DOT rules plus your *A elite benefit. (need to check with the carrier to determine if this is weigh or bag count addition and if the bag count is just 50 lbs or higher).

When checking-in with a non-*A carrier you will get the MSC/DOT rules -- there will be no elite benefits adder in most cases.
Thanks. Now I got it!

Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
With checking-in with a *A carrier you will get the MSC/DOT rules plus your *A elite benefit. (need to check with the carrier to determine if this is weigh or bag count addition and if the bag count is just 50 lbs or higher).
So one more question. Since I'm in E on the first (much shorter) flight, but Business on the TPAC, am I still considered E class to SQ? Is that where significant carrier could come into play? In which case I would get 2x70 as my business class allowance and an extra 1x50 for being *G ?

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Aug 15, 2016 at 1:53 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 12:24 pm
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Originally Posted by chavala
Thanks for the replies. I may be more confused than ever

I bought my ticket thru UA, the tkt # is 016. Paid business P class, but booked the short SIN-DPS hop in E (and saved a thousand bucks).
The SQ portion is NOT a code share, its a SQ #.
Still doesn't give us any relevant information with regard to bag allowance.

The relevant info. is going to be the marketing carrier for the first flight - i.e., when you look at your itinerary, for the first flight, who's airline code is in front of the first flight. If it says, for example, UA 1, it is UAs bag rules which will be the guide for the entire itinerary. If it was (again, just a completely made up example), NZ 9809, then it would be NZ rules that would govern everything. Including the return. The SQ flight (which isn't the first flight, presumably) or any other downline flights are irrelevant to calculate baggage fees.

Ticket issuer (UA in this case), and fare class is irrelevant to marketing carrier. Who's airline code is in front of the first flight on the itinerary is all that matters.

Originally Posted by chavala
I don't know? Can I check in with UA? I doubt it -- I always check in w NH even when its a codeshare. I have flown this route tons but am always on a separate SQ ticket, so I check in w SQ and later w UA. The reservations show as linked once I check my bags.

Not a typo - sorry if its misleading. I typed DPS-SFO into the calculator because that's the only part I'm concerned about. I know I can have 3@70 on the outbound.
You are going to check in with the carrier operating the first flight of that direction. Leaving DPS, that cannot and will not be UA, as they don't serve DPS. If you go to UAs site to check in, it won't let you. I forget the exact wording, but it will basically tell you to go to the operator of the first flight.
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