SFO_FT

They don't want the typical frequent flyer (ie, is going to fly because the pax has to fly for work and not flying is not an option) to willingly choose to pay a lower fare. Stripping out the features important to freq flyers (ie, ability to choose seat in advance, E+, F upgrades, ability to change ticket, etc) is a way to minimize cannibalization. Same reason that airlines used to require a Sat night stay on most cheap fares -- they got rid of that provision in most markets solely because new entrants not because the legacy carriers wanted to remove it.

riphamilton

if i understand this correctly, this wouldn't be too bad. going from N to G is often only a few bucks.

findark

Assuming they match DL (which has been the case completely so far), then the new N fare will be a negative differential fare, so it is always a particular amount less than the lowest (G/K/L etc) fare, usually $15-50.

Kacee

Is this a discussion about upfaring? As I understand it, these fares are not changeable on DL. Except I guess within 24 hours of ticketing.

findark

I was assuming just a discussion about what the price difference will be. DL uses differential faring for E fares (with a negative differential) so the "extra" amount to fly on a normal ticket is predictable. I agree it's doubtful whether you will be able to GG BUYUP from a Basic Economy fare, but it can be relevant to some of us what the difference is at booking when it comes to expense reports, etc.

Bowgie

For Delta, the differential is shown at booking. After the 24-hour cancellation period, there is no refund or ability to up-fare a Delta E fare. This annoys business travelers who are stuck with company-booked flights, and are then prevented from up-faring out of their own pockets.

On my very limited sample of routes where Delta added E fares, they raised the cost of the normal lowest ticket by about $20 and set the price of the E fare equal to the old low fare price.

gglave

Yep - This is definitely my fear.

Based on our beancounter culture, I'm 100% sure I'll be required to book these fares.

What's interesting is that at least in my case, this will cost United business.

Today I go out of my way to try to steer business towards United. Aside from a smattering of Air Canada bookings, 100% of my travel since January 1st, 2015 has been on United. Once these fares are in place and I'm forced to book them there's no incentive for me to pick United. I'll just book whatever fare is cheapest and convenient - United, Delta, Alaska, whatever...

BBSHOPSINGER

Am I understanding correctly that the fare code is "N"? So if the code is other than N I would be OK?

fumje

At the moment nothing has been announced, and they don't seem to be selling any N fares. The latter observation along with other statements referenced earlier seems to have prompted this speculation.

iluv2fly

I have bought a few N fares in the past. Have always been able to upgrade and do SDC.

(ORD-LAS, -LGA IIRC)

aacharya

I do wonder who has a ticket with an N still around - maybe there's a cutoff date so that we know where our tickets may have some issues.

Say UA implements N fares as BE starting December 2016 - let's say I have something I ticketed February 2016 for January 2017....I would have issues.

fumje

I suppose that wasn't clear---I have bought N fares as well, and presently the N bucket still has open inventory on many flights. But the lowest on offer for purchase that I can turn up seems to be G.

I'd hope they won't impose whatever the BE restrictions are to already-purchased tickets; but I wouldn't have faith they don't inadvertently do so.

emcampbe

Don't know how the system exactly works for these new kinds of fares, but I suspect the restrictions will be part of the fare rules, and thus, no different than a fare basis in a given bucket having different rules from other fare basis' in that bucket. Examples of differentiation today within specific fare basis within the same bucket may include different routing restrictions, who can market/operate flights on a specific fare basis, or even different advance purchase requirements. Not to mention, rules on mileage earning can be different already today (i.e. bulk fares with say, a T basis, earning based on distance while a regular T bucket earns on fare, or a standard award booking, which goes into Y/YN, restricted from earning miles, and receiving CPUs). So it certainly can be, and is done already.

findark

There are no currently published N fares that I am aware of. Given the generally short travel window of the N fares when they were published in the past, I would guess that we are already close to the point where all itineraries ticketed in N will have been flown (if you currently hold an N class ticket, feel free to correct me).

This, combined with the fact that N inventory has been allowed to float up to about S or T level, seems to imply that UA is going to use N for Basic Economy, using the same negative differential faring strategy that DL is using.

FlyGirl001

I don't think the "budget economy" fares have began yet.