View Poll Results: Is the change to early boarding for families w/children 2 or under a good move by UA?
Like the change and it will improve boarding time
72
9.68%
Like the change but it will not improve boarding time
67
9.01%
Dislike the change but it will improve boarding time
16
2.15%
Dislike the change and it will not improve boarding time
454
61.02%
Could support a different change and it will improve boarding time
23
3.09%
Could support a different change but it will not improve boarding time
22
2.96%
Neutral but it will improve boarding times
15
2.02%
Neutral but it will not improve boarding times
75
10.08%
Voters: 744. You may not vote on this poll
Reintroducing Early Boarding for Families with Children
Feb 12, 2016, 12:55 pm
#751
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K MM, Accor Plat, Htz PC, Natl ExEm, other random status
Posts: 2,876
You did not make decision to get injured just like no one decides it is a great idea to be disabled. That is completely different than deciding to have children then feeling entitled over FF's because you have a child that is under whatever age the GA decides that day is ok to board 1st.
What I'm suggesting is that the argument that the volitional nature of having children means that the burdens faced by parents boarding with children should be disregarded leads very rapidly to conclusions like mine, that I shouldn't be entitled to preboard because the disability was as the result of choices that I made.
If you want to argue that it slows the process down for everyone, and that should outweigh the parents' interests in preboarding, OK, that's at least a fair question. Arguing that parents shouldn't be entitled to preboard because they chose to have children is an extremely poor argument.
Frankly, my ACL ruptures were far more volitional than many adults' status as parents. Neither you nor I have any knowledge of why a particular family has children, nor should we, nor should any of us make any such assumptions. Plus, when people are making the decision to have children, nobody's doing it so that they can preboard an aircraft.
For what it's worth, though, having both traveled while disabled and with children, the burdens of traveling solo with two children were far greater than those I faced traveling on crutches.
Greg
Feb 12, 2016, 12:59 pm
#752
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,752
If you want to argue that it slows the process down for everyone, and that should outweigh the parents' interests in preboarding, OK, that's at least a fair question. Arguing that parents shouldn't be entitled to preboard because they chose to have children is an extremely poor argument.
No one with an (especially recent) ACL injury can easily traverse the walkway without some special assistance. There are no exceptions to this.
On the other hand, there are plenty of parents who have travelled with young children who didn't require any special assistance. Just because some parents are unable or unwilling to, should we allow them special dispensation?
Feb 12, 2016, 1:02 pm
#753
Join Date: Dec 2011
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 317
I showed this thread to my mother a few days ago, and I just got the chance to talk to her about it now. Her first comment was something along the lines of, "It's amazing that we all survived having children in the 80s." (there is a lot of implied sarcasm in that line, typing doesn't do it justice) Then she went on about it is one of her peeves when people aren't prepared. But she told did bring up the fact that back then, she made a conscious decision to allocate 1 carry-on item to a car seat and check the rest.
Then we got on the topic of car seats...she had little sympathy for people that struggle with the installation because as she pointed out, "they put a booklet in the box that has all of the instructions on how to attach it correctly." But, she did point out that if a car seat is DOT approved, but not FAA approved, then it shouldn't even be near the gate because it is not approved for travel. In fact, late last year, she was heading down to ANU when a family tried to board with a non-FAA compliant car seat. When the GA confronted them, the family went ballistic (at EWR), so the GA acquiesced and allowed them to board...only to have them swim upstream because it didn't have the appropriate anchor points.
On a side note, when I asked her about screaming children, her answer was, "noise canceling headphones, and some high-proof liquor." Although her method of discipline would be that if I acted out or did anything out of line, I would get the "stare," which was enough to correct behavior.
Then we got on the topic of car seats...she had little sympathy for people that struggle with the installation because as she pointed out, "they put a booklet in the box that has all of the instructions on how to attach it correctly." But, she did point out that if a car seat is DOT approved, but not FAA approved, then it shouldn't even be near the gate because it is not approved for travel. In fact, late last year, she was heading down to ANU when a family tried to board with a non-FAA compliant car seat. When the GA confronted them, the family went ballistic (at EWR), so the GA acquiesced and allowed them to board...only to have them swim upstream because it didn't have the appropriate anchor points.
On a side note, when I asked her about screaming children, her answer was, "noise canceling headphones, and some high-proof liquor." Although her method of discipline would be that if I acted out or did anything out of line, I would get the "stare," which was enough to correct behavior.
Feb 12, 2016, 1:13 pm
#754
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K MM, Accor Plat, Htz PC, Natl ExEm, other random status
Posts: 2,876
Herein lies the difference.
No one with an (especially recent) ACL injury can easily traverse the walkway without some special assistance. There are no exceptions to this.
On the other hand, there are plenty of parents who have travelled with young children who didn't require any special assistance. Just because some parents are unable or unwilling to, should we allow them special dispensation?
No one with an (especially recent) ACL injury can easily traverse the walkway without some special assistance. There are no exceptions to this.
On the other hand, there are plenty of parents who have travelled with young children who didn't require any special assistance. Just because some parents are unable or unwilling to, should we allow them special dispensation?
I could, and did board aircraft without having preboard privileges. I did not *require* special assistance to board, but it was extremely helpful to have extra time.
In fact, on one flight where the aisles were particularly narrow and I had arrived late due to a tight connection, I created open laughter among other passengers, because I held my crutches in one hand and hopped down the aisle on one leg down to my seat in row 12 (or whatever).
Not everyone with an ACL injury would be able to do so (nor should they, because if nothing else, it looked ridiculous). I happened to be able to do that because I was a competitive masters athlete who had rowed in the Head of the Charles Regatta a couple of weeks before my injury. Most people with the degree of knee injury I had wouldn't even try to travel.
Should we be asking GA's to evaluate whether somebody on crutches *could* board during the general boarding process?
Greg
Feb 12, 2016, 1:19 pm
#755
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,752
Sorry, again I disagree with your analysis.
I could, and did board aircraft without having preboard privileges. I did not *require* special assistance to board, but it was extremely helpful to have extra time.
In fact, on one flight where the aisles were particularly narrow and I had arrived late due to a tight connection, I created open laughter among other passengers, because I held my crutches in one hand and hopped down the aisle on one leg down to my seat in row 12 (or whatever).
Not everyone with an ACL injury would be able to do so (nor should they, because if nothing else, it looked ridiculous). I happened to be able to do that because I was a competitive masters athlete who had rowed in the Head of the Charles Regatta a couple of weeks before my injury. Most people with the degree of knee injury I had wouldn't even try to travel.
Should we be asking GA's to evaluate whether somebody on crutches *could* board during the general boarding process?
Greg
I could, and did board aircraft without having preboard privileges. I did not *require* special assistance to board, but it was extremely helpful to have extra time.
In fact, on one flight where the aisles were particularly narrow and I had arrived late due to a tight connection, I created open laughter among other passengers, because I held my crutches in one hand and hopped down the aisle on one leg down to my seat in row 12 (or whatever).
Not everyone with an ACL injury would be able to do so (nor should they, because if nothing else, it looked ridiculous). I happened to be able to do that because I was a competitive masters athlete who had rowed in the Head of the Charles Regatta a couple of weeks before my injury. Most people with the degree of knee injury I had wouldn't even try to travel.
Should we be asking GA's to evaluate whether somebody on crutches *could* board during the general boarding process?
Greg
I see nothing similar on having an actual physical impairment caused by a debilitating injury to "some" parents who are unable or unwilling to handle traveling with young children as efficiently as others.
If they are unwilling or unable, they should pay for pre-boarding, like everyone else. I get they want the free perk, but let's just call it what it is.
Feb 12, 2016, 1:41 pm
#756
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
From my perspective, it just boils down a group who wants a free perk; because, for whatever reason, they are unwilling or unable to pay for it.
I can appreciate this, but just spare me the disingenuous rhetoric justifying the entitlement or appealing to "common decency."
I can appreciate this, but just spare me the disingenuous rhetoric justifying the entitlement or appealing to "common decency."
We all have things that make life difficult for us and not for others. I don't think that's a reason to get special treatment.
Feb 12, 2016, 1:53 pm
#757
Join Date: May 2011
Programs: UA GS and 1MM; SPG/Marr Plat; Hilton Gold
Posts: 141
I showed this thread to my mother a few days ago, and I just got the chance to talk to her about it now. Her first comment was something along the lines of, "It's amazing that we all survived having children in the 80s." (there is a lot of implied sarcasm in that line, typing doesn't do it justice) Then she went on about it is one of her peeves when people aren't prepared. But she told did bring up the fact that back then, she made a conscious decision to allocate 1 carry-on item to a car seat and check the rest.
Then we got on the topic of car seats...she had little sympathy for people that struggle with the installation because as she pointed out, "they put a booklet in the box that has all of the instructions on how to attach it correctly." But, she did point out that if a car seat is DOT approved, but not FAA approved, then it shouldn't even be near the gate because it is not approved for travel. In fact, late last year, she was heading down to ANU when a family tried to board with a non-FAA compliant car seat. When the GA confronted them, the family went ballistic (at EWR), so the GA acquiesced and allowed them to board...only to have them swim upstream because it didn't have the appropriate anchor points.
On a side note, when I asked her about screaming children, her answer was, "noise canceling headphones, and some high-proof liquor." Although her method of discipline would be that if I acted out or did anything out of line, I would get the "stare," which was enough to correct behavior.
Then we got on the topic of car seats...she had little sympathy for people that struggle with the installation because as she pointed out, "they put a booklet in the box that has all of the instructions on how to attach it correctly." But, she did point out that if a car seat is DOT approved, but not FAA approved, then it shouldn't even be near the gate because it is not approved for travel. In fact, late last year, she was heading down to ANU when a family tried to board with a non-FAA compliant car seat. When the GA confronted them, the family went ballistic (at EWR), so the GA acquiesced and allowed them to board...only to have them swim upstream because it didn't have the appropriate anchor points.
On a side note, when I asked her about screaming children, her answer was, "noise canceling headphones, and some high-proof liquor." Although her method of discipline would be that if I acted out or did anything out of line, I would get the "stare," which was enough to correct behavior.
Completely agree.
On a side note, from my observations most parents with an under 2 year-old child do not bring a car seat into the cabin for the child. That would require the purchase of a separate seat. I would bet a not insignificant sum that the vast majority of under 2 year-old passengers are lap childs.
This doesn't mean that parents don't have a lot of other stuff, but using the time and effort to set up an infant seat as one of the justifications for the policy change (as many previous posters have) is of limited credibility.
Feb 12, 2016, 2:03 pm
#758
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K MM, Accor Plat, Htz PC, Natl ExEm, other random status
Posts: 2,876
As someone upthread suggested, I think a perfectly reasonable line could be drawn for parents traveling with children who will be sitting in their own seats.
That said, I still think that a substantial portion of the objections to the policy can be boiled down to "I'm not as special as I used to be before this policy," and nothing's going to ameliorate that pain.
Greg
Feb 12, 2016, 2:05 pm
#759
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
Completely agree.
On a side note, from my observations most parents with an under 2 year-old child do not bring a car seat into the cabin for the child. That would require the purchase of a separate seat. I would bet a not insignificant sum that the vast majority of under 2 year-old passengers are lap childs.
This doesn't mean that parents don't have a lot of other stuff, but using the time and effort to set up an infant seat as one of the justifications for the policy change (as many previous posters have) is of limited credibility.
On a side note, from my observations most parents with an under 2 year-old child do not bring a car seat into the cabin for the child. That would require the purchase of a separate seat. I would bet a not insignificant sum that the vast majority of under 2 year-old passengers are lap childs.
This doesn't mean that parents don't have a lot of other stuff, but using the time and effort to set up an infant seat as one of the justifications for the policy change (as many previous posters have) is of limited credibility.
Last edited by JBord; Feb 12, 2016 at 2:23 pm
Feb 12, 2016, 2:31 pm
#760
Join Date: May 2011
Programs: UA GS and 1MM; SPG/Marr Plat; Hilton Gold
Posts: 141
Interesting point. I don't pay that much attention, but I bet you are right. My sister has a 1 year old. She has flown once since the baby came. One way they had 2 F seats and held the baby and one way they had 3. That was a flight to Hawaii. No question she would only have had 2 seats both way on shorter flights.
Feb 12, 2016, 2:35 pm
#761
Join Date: Aug 2015
Programs: AA PLT PRO, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Plt. Premier
Posts: 587
1. Why does UA think this will speed up the boarding process since there is no way they can create a gap in between groups ?
2. Why does UA all of a sudden think that their GA's are going to start enforcing a policy to the letter ?
3. Add 1 and 2 together and you create MUCH slower boarding times for the frequent flyer that creates a large portion of UA's revenue
4. Why should someone that purchases a 1st class ticket for say $1800 board after a family with a mom & dad and a 4 and 8 year old that spent $800 total ?
Feb 12, 2016, 3:16 pm
#762
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
I don't think that is what most think at all they are probably thinking
1. Why does UA think this will speed up the boarding process since there is no way they can create a gap in between groups ?
2. Why does UA all of a sudden think that their GA's are going to start enforcing a policy to the letter ?
3. Add 1 and 2 together and you create MUCH slower boarding times for the frequent flyer that creates a large portion of UA's revenue
4. Why should someone that purchases a 1st class ticket for say $1800 board after a family with a mom & dad and a 4 and 8 year old that spent $800 total ?
1. Why does UA think this will speed up the boarding process since there is no way they can create a gap in between groups ?
2. Why does UA all of a sudden think that their GA's are going to start enforcing a policy to the letter ?
3. Add 1 and 2 together and you create MUCH slower boarding times for the frequent flyer that creates a large portion of UA's revenue
4. Why should someone that purchases a 1st class ticket for say $1800 board after a family with a mom & dad and a 4 and 8 year old that spent $800 total ?
Feb 12, 2016, 3:21 pm
#763
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 28
As a "past" parent of 6, I like this change. Raising kids is tough and families go ahead of everyone including GS DYKWIAs like me.
For those who don't think so, I hope you have fun lonely in your rest home on your final, broken connection home with no IFE, PDB, and Mr Bubbles
Kids first.
For those who don't think so, I hope you have fun lonely in your rest home on your final, broken connection home with no IFE, PDB, and Mr Bubbles
Kids first.
Your world may revolve around your "kids first" attitude, but mine does not.
Kids can board with their assigned boarding group.
At least I don't have to deal with this on AA.
Feb 12, 2016, 4:47 pm
#764
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: AADULtArer
Posts: 5,683
Having kids or not - personal decision.
Making allowances for those who do - not optional for civilised people.
Feb 12, 2016, 5:16 pm
#765
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DAY
Programs: UA 1K 1MM; Marriott LT Titanium; Amex MR; Chase UR; Hertz PC; Global Entry
Posts: 10,159
As a "past" parent of 6, I like this change. Raising kids is tough and families go ahead of everyone including GS DYKWIAs like me.
For those who don't think so, I hope you have fun lonely in your rest home on your final, broken connection home with no IFE, PDB, and Mr Bubbles
Kids first.
For those who don't think so, I hope you have fun lonely in your rest home on your final, broken connection home with no IFE, PDB, and Mr Bubbles
Kids first.
Being bumped to boarding class 5 as a 1k in first class doesn't strike me as a great idea for United. I don't think that makes me uncivilized.