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Boarding door closed and seat given away 25 mins before departure. Any recourse?

Boarding door closed and seat given away 25 mins before departure. Any recourse?

Old Dec 31, 15, 12:44 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by Kacee View Post
This does indeed appear to be an IDB.

Note that the GA's motivation may not have been to avoid giving comp, but rather (a) to get the flight out early because that's how GAs get unscheduled breaks, and (b) avoid the hassle of the VDB/IDB process, which would have virtually guaranteed no unscheduled break.

Sometimes employee conduct which tends here to be ascribed to a broad UA conspiracy to screw its passengers can be explained at a more personal level
Why does it appear to be an IDB? A full flight and standbys doesn't mean someone needs to be denied boarding - it could mean there are non-rev or revenue passengers standing by for the flight. The only motivation that makes sense is getting the flight out early. It's probably an equal amount of work, at least at a small station like this, to VDB or remove a no-show. IDBs is more work, mostly due to having a pissed off customer.

It doesn't hurt to contact United and ask if IDB compensation is appropriate. I still suspect there's a chance the OP didn't make the 30 minute check-in deadline, especially since the OP said they arrived at the airport at T31.
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Old Dec 31, 15, 12:48 pm
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by WineCountryUA View Post
If this was 30 Dec 2015

The wiki of http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...solidated.html listed the key elements of IDB.

CRJ-200 appears to be the scheduled aircraft and there was no downsizing.
The 60 seat IDB limitation only applies if a weight restricted flight.
The check-in/gate time seems to be the only criteria for UA to claim for exemption.

Sounds like a over zealous, under trained UX GA but the offloading time stamp will be critical.

Complain to UA , ask to for IDB and flight credit.
If no resolution in 5 days, contact DoT would be my path.
UA was contacted at the gate, they had their chance. Today is the day to file a DOT claim since the airline will actually have to answer it.
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Old Dec 31, 15, 1:11 pm
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by fly18725 View Post
Why does it appear to be an IDB? A full flight and standbys doesn't mean someone needs to be denied boarding - it could mean there are non-rev or revenue passengers standing by for the flight. The only motivation that makes sense is getting the flight out early. It's probably an equal amount of work, at least at a small station like this, to VDB or remove a no-show. IDBs is more work, mostly due to having a pissed off customer.

It doesn't hurt to contact United and ask if IDB compensation is appropriate. I still suspect there's a chance the OP didn't make the 30 minute check-in deadline, especially since the OP said they arrived at the airport at T31.
The flight went out full. Even if it was not oversold initially, as soon as they cleared a standby, UA created an oversold flight since they were not past the deadline to start offloading checked in passengers.

The exception would be if the OP did not check-in 30 minutes prior to the flight. I have no idea why you consider this to be likely since the OP was at the gate at T-21. Are you proposing that the OP cleared security without a boarding pass? Or are you saying that the OP waited to check in until they got to the airport and then managed to convince UA to let them check-in at T-29 before racing through security and to the gate? Is this scenario possible? Sure. Is it more likely than a GA simply closing boarding early before all checked-in passengers were accounted for? I don't think so.
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Old Dec 31, 15, 1:35 pm
  #34  
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As I mentioned above, I checked in several hours before the departure. Checkin was never an issue.

Originally Posted by fly18725 View Post
Why does it appear to be an IDB? A full flight and standbys doesn't mean someone needs to be denied boarding - it could mean there are non-rev or revenue passengers standing by for the flight. The only motivation that makes sense is getting the flight out early. It's probably an equal amount of work, at least at a small station like this, to VDB or remove a no-show. IDBs is more work, mostly due to having a pissed off customer.

It doesn't hurt to contact United and ask if IDB compensation is appropriate. I still suspect there's a chance the OP didn't make the 30 minute check-in deadline, especially since the OP said they arrived at the airport at T31.
Originally Posted by Soccerdad1995 View Post
The flight went out full. Even if it was not oversold initially, as soon as they cleared a standby, UA created an oversold flight since they were not past the deadline to start offloading checked in passengers.

The exception would be if the OP did not check-in 30 minutes prior to the flight. I have no idea why you consider this to be likely since the OP was at the gate at T-21. Are you proposing that the OP cleared security without a boarding pass? Or are you saying that the OP waited to check in until they got to the airport and then managed to convince UA to let them check-in at T-29 before racing through security and to the gate? Is this scenario possible? Sure. Is it more likely than a GA simply closing boarding early before all checked-in passengers were accounted for? I don't think so.
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Old Dec 31, 15, 1:36 pm
  #35  
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This thread is full of terrible advice. And the conclusions are simply wrong.

The flight was served by a CRJ-200 with 50 passenger seats. DOT IDB rules exempt flights served by aircraft with less than 60 seats. Thus, while OP was likely involuntarily denied boarding, he is due $0 compensation.

OP should nonetheless file a short & sweet complaint with UA noting that he was at the gate with a valid BP at T-21 and that he was denied boarding. Let UA sort it out. UA will explain why the flight is exempt, but will likely toss some miles as a customer service gesture.

The DOT complaint is, of course, a waste, because there was no DOT violation.
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Old Dec 31, 15, 1:42 pm
  #36  
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I'm frankly confused about whether the DOT exception for small aircraft applies ONLY when there are weight and balance issues or also for oversales due to just selling too many tickets.
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Old Dec 31, 15, 1:54 pm
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by Soccerdad1995 View Post
The flight went out full. Even if it was not oversold initially, as soon as they cleared a standby, UA created an oversold flight since they were not past the deadline to start offloading checked in passengers.
Clearing a standby does not create an oversold situation.

Originally Posted by flyersky1 View Post
As I mentioned above, I checked in several hours before the departure. Checkin was never an issue.
Since you checked in online but hadn't cleared security by T30, the GA may have thought you were a no-show.

I'm not saying the GA was right, but if you're going to address this with United, it helps to also look at things from their perspective.
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Old Dec 31, 15, 1:57 pm
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
This thread is full of terrible advice. And the conclusions are simply wrong.

The flight was served by a CRJ-200 with 50 passenger seats. DOT IDB rules exempt flights served by aircraft with less than 60 seats. Thus, while OP was likely involuntarily denied boarding, he is due $0 compensation.

OP should nonetheless file a short & sweet complaint with UA noting that he was at the gate with a valid BP at T-21 and that he was denied boarding. Let UA sort it out. UA will explain why the flight is exempt, but will likely toss some miles as a customer service gesture.

The DOT complaint is, of course, a waste, because there was no DOT violation.
Are you certain that there is a blanket IDB exemption for all aircraft with less than 60 seats? I thought that exemption only applied to W&B issues, which would not apply here as the flight did in fact fly full.

Even if this is the case, then I personally think a DOT complaint is warranted to show why such a blanket exemption needs to be reconsidered, especially given the shift toward smaller aircraft among the majors.
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Old Dec 31, 15, 1:59 pm
  #39  
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Originally Posted by fly18725 View Post
Since you checked in online but hadn't cleared security by T30, the GA may have thought you were a no-show.
GA has access to TSA information?
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Old Dec 31, 15, 2:00 pm
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Originally Posted by fly18725 View Post

Since you checked in online but hadn't cleared security by T30, the GA may have thought you were a no-show.

I'm not saying the GA was right, but if you're going to address this with United, it helps to also look at things from their perspective.
Does the GA have visibility of a pax clearing security?
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Old Dec 31, 15, 2:07 pm
  #41  
 
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You can complain to the DOT. If UA isn't complying with its contract of carriage maybe Congress and the DOT should re-evaluate UA's special legal protections. Fill out this complaint form: https://www.transportation.gov/airco...umer-complaint.

I bet UA would be willing to classify this as an IDB incident and compensate accordingly (cash for 4x the one-way fare value up to $1350) in order to close the incident and prevent regulators looking too closely at the extent of their shady "close the gate earlier than the CoC says" express practices.

Alternately you can sue UA — from your description they did not honor their contract. What are your damages?

Please follow up when you've heard back from UA or regulators with what the resolution was. This should be easy to resolve quickly if you want (within a week or two).
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Old Dec 31, 15, 2:07 pm
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
This thread is full of terrible advice. And the conclusions are simply wrong.
True, but then again, this is flyertalk so it should not come as a surprise.
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Old Dec 31, 15, 2:12 pm
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
This thread is full of terrible advice. And the conclusions are simply wrong.

The flight was served by a CRJ-200 with 50 passenger seats. DOT IDB rules exempt flights served by aircraft with less than 60 seats. Thus, while OP was likely involuntarily denied boarding, he is due $0 compensation.

OP should nonetheless file a short & sweet complaint with UA noting that he was at the gate with a valid BP at T-21 and that he was denied boarding. Let UA sort it out. UA will explain why the flight is exempt, but will likely toss some miles as a customer service gesture.

The DOT complaint is, of course, a waste, because there was no DOT violation.
Here is what I was able to find on the DOT.gov website. Is this info incorrect, or is there something else that provides the blanket exemption you are thinking about? I did find a blanket exemption for aircraft with less than 30 seats as well as a few other situations that are not relevant here.

* If the airline must substitute a smaller plane for the one it originally planned to use, the carrier isn't required to pay people who are bumped as a result. In addition, on flights using aircraft with 30 through 60 passenger seats, compensation is not required if you were bumped due to safety-related aircraft weight or balance constraints
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Old Dec 31, 15, 2:27 pm
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by Hammer0425 View Post
Some of the United Express carriers don't have electronic ACARS which means paper weight and balance. They're closing the door more than ten minutes before departure, if you're there or not. Also, with the weather at the various hubs this week, there could have been a call for release program. If you have a 2pm departure, the pilots call and request 2pm and are told they're released at 2pm, they're going to tell the gate agent they need to be moving no later than 1:50. If they're doing paper weight and balance, it means she's closing the door 1:35-1:40pm.
No that shouldn't be happening. The door should not be being closed more than 10 minutes prior to departure, unless all pax are aboard. UX still has to abide by UA's contract of carriage. Electronic ACARS or not, that's ridiculous.
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Old Dec 31, 15, 2:52 pm
  #45  
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Originally Posted by SPLITTERZ View Post
No that shouldn't be happening. The door should not be being closed more than 10 minutes prior to departure, unless all pax are aboard. UX still has to abide by UA's contract of carriage. Electronic ACARS or not, that's ridiculous.
But here is the rub on that. They offloaded the OP and filled his seat with another passenger so everyone was onboard. Just not the person who should have been. If all seats are filled then they can close the door and go. Where the problem is, is the GA offloaded the OP improperly before the cutoff time to make room for the other passenger. So the fault lies entirely with the GA in offloading the OP before the cutoff.
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