Tchiowa

Mega-years ago there was a case here in the Bay Area. Don't recall details at all. But the guy sued Wells Fargo in Small Claims, won, and WF wasn't in any hurry to pay him. He went back so SC to get an order to seize assets to cover the judgment. Then the Sheriff tried to take the stage coach that sat out in their lobby! They paid.

janehoya

That's fantastic! If more people stood up for themselves the world would be a fairer place.

synergistic

Wow, I seriously just sat down and read this whole thread, despite not being a terribly regular United flyer. I can't believe their response! Is there any way you can speak to someone 'live' from the corporate care department via phone? I feel like SCC could still be avoided if you can just talk to someone with access to your offboarding timestamp.

One bright note from where I'm sitting - I'm glad the TSA guy was suitably apologetic and willing to help after his initial attitude. I hope very much that he maintained that willingness to help when/if he was contacted about the issue.

msears101

That is awesome.

msears101

I am so sorry. United customer service is declining. Most of them are unwilling to help.

I have been following this thread. I often do what you do, and I have since started arriving a bit early. There is no point in arriving early, but I am now shooting for at least T-30, just in case.

One other note is from airport to airport, the staff has different ways of operating. It is very inconsistent. Charlotte is some of the best, btw. Syracuse has some of the worst.

MSPeconomist

I wonder whether there's any way the GA could have "fixed" the electronic record to avoid getting in trouble. Perhaps while the OP was speaking with the apparent supervisor at the airport when the GA disappeared, she did something in the computer to make it look like she had given away the OP's seat at the appropriate time and then closed the flight when it wasn't too early to do so. I find it odd that UA told DOT that the OP was late without lifting a finger to verify this beyond asking employees at the outstation.

transportbiz

That is another suspicion we all have, of course if there is evidence of this, United could be subjected to a serious fine as it could be considered a fraudulent report to the DOT.

flyersky1

I was wondering myself if this is possible. As I said before at no point during our communication UA CS said that they reviewed the time stamp. Neither did DOT. There are three possibilities. 1) UA CS saw the correct time stamp but the GA told them I was there late anyway so they are just relying on that. 2) They didn't bother to review the time stamp. 3) The GAs fixed it.

The evidence for #3 is that the male GA spent more than 20 mins typing on the computer and chatting with the female GA, while I was waiting. As I mentioned upthread, after the officer went to check the tsa evidence, the male GA asked me if I called UA to report the incident. I said yes, and even showed him my phone with the time of the call (8:06pm). He looked at it, frowned and told me to have a seat and continued to type. They were looking at me occasionally and chuckling. I even took a picture of them but of course that cannot prove anything.

The evidence against #3 is that if the time stamp was changed and UA CS saw it they would have referred to it. They didn't.

If they changed the time stamp then how can anyone prove that they did. Even if the evidence is requested in SCC then they will show the doctored record. I don't believe that they did but anything is possible.

cfischer

You can't just fix a time stamp. There are things called audit trails. I would not worry about this if you know for sure when you were at the gate. Take them to court and they will pay.

raehl311

Sure you can. SOMEBODY has the ability to go into the DB and change the value in that field.

There would be VERY FEW somebody's with that ability, assuming the system is well-designed.

But also depending how the system is designed, the timestamp field may merely be a "last edit" field, in which case updating the record blows away the previous timestamp.


More generally, any more news on this issue from OP?

channa

Right. You can't expect UA to admit wrongdoing.

What they should have done to let this hopefully fizzle out is uphold their position, but offer some compensation for the confusion and miscommunication regarding the incident.

OP accepts the voucher (and releases UA of any liability) and just moves on.

Instead, UA decided to fan the flames. Hopefully the OP goes after them and exposes UA for what they've done.

Often1

I doubt that a GA or anybody at the station has the ability to mess with the audit trail which should show every time the PNR was accessed and the key strokes associated with that access.

It's also odd that UA did not pay up, especially when the DOT complaint was made. That is the usual UA approach.

Trying to continue a dialog here is useless. UA legal shuts out customer service, as it ought to, once DOT is involved. OP's choice is to drop the matter and move on or to file in SCC and see whether UA sticks to its guns as it has to date.

If this is the odd case where UA stands it ground, it may well remove the case to federal court and that becomes a mess for OP. But, that hasn't happened yet.

Bottom line here is that clearly UA and OP see the facts differently. That's what courts are for. Time is OP's enemy.

MSPeconomist

Would there be any point to the OP going back to DOT and trying again to clarify exactly what happened, disputing UA's account of the timeline/facts?

televisor

Not if it uses some form of append-only storage or logging, which would make sense for auditable systems. But I'm completely unfamiliar with airline systems, so no idea if that actually applies.

bocastephen

For a $50 SCC filing fee it's not worth the trouble - just file the suit and UA will likely answer the OP at the proper channel and make this situation right. I'd be very surprised if it ever got near a trial date without a fair settlement.