Originally Posted by transportbiz

Yeah, in SC court at least here is CA you'll have to show financial loss. It has to be rather specific, and typically out-of-pocket. Some pro-tems or visiting Judges who don't know better will award pain and suffering.
..
As to repossessing a plane, not going to happen, but for sure you can till-tap, but it'd never come to that, United would pay the judgment, if you get one. They'd have 30-days to pay, or appeal the judgment. Appeals in SC court are rare, and usually require proof a legal error in occurred.

As to United not sending someone, don't count on that. They will for sure send someone!

Originally Posted by Often1

...or UA may remove this to federal court (which puts you in a pickle).

Originally Posted by Often1

...
UA may simply pay, UA may never answer and default (very unlikely), UA may try to settle, or UA may remove this to federal court (which puts you in a pickle).

Originally Posted by spin88

You are entitled to both statutory AND actual damages. So OP can ask the Court to award him the IDB compensation he was due under the law. What he CAN'T get (under Wolens) is treble or punitive damages.

Everyone I know who has sued in small claims court (airlines, hotels, cel phone companies, etc) has just gotten the judgements paid, I don't see any difficulty in getting a judgement, its getting the judgment that is harder. Just make sure you have documentary evidence (for example, you can get a statement from the airport security person, cel phone records showing the timing of your call to complain about the cancellation.

That said, I would expect if you sue them they will reach out to discuss it.

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Just as a thought, is the OP working with customer service or Corporate Customer Service. The latter has the authority to get things done, the former does not.

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Just as a thought, is the OP working with customer service or Corporate Customer Service. The latter has the authority to get things done, the former does not.

Originally Posted by exerda

This.

I have had a poor experience before where I got a bad CS agent who was 100% flat-out wrong, but no attempt at any form of contact with customer service--including 1K Voice--went anywhere but to that same agent, who insisted the same wrong thing (long story, but it involved the "lowest fare guarantee") and insisted the matter was "closed."

I had to reach out to someone at corporate (thank you to the FTers who PM'd me the appropriate person), who handled the problem immediately. She and I had a lengthy discussion once the matter was resolved about how CS failed. I'd pass along her name & e-mail, but she no longer works at UA.

Originally Posted by flyersky1

A quick update that has not come sooner because the outcome is depressing and almost kafkaeske. UA CS wrote me again saying that they contacted again the LNK staff and they confirmed their previous conclusion. No reference to electronically stamped records, or checking the time I called UA customer service to report the incident, or contacting the police officer who verified TSA footage after I emailed UA his business card. Dot told me they have no power to force UA to provide individual compensation. They also indicated that they cannot summon those electronically stamped records so if I want them summoned and receive individual compensation I should turn to a small claims court. There you have it.

Originally Posted by mherdeg

Thanks for sharing this update.

You can indeed always sue in small-claims court: do you have any damages?

Originally Posted by bocastephen

There are piles of threads throughout FT where other people sued an airline or hotel in SCC and won (some lost, just depends on the circumstances) - it can be done, and in your case based on the facts shared so far, it *should* be done.

You need to list and rank the injuries suffered - actual financial loss, projected opportunity cost (ie, missed sales meeting, etc), emotional trauma, etc - only you know the answer to this, but a good starting point is the value of the trip plus actual financial losses plus opportunity costs (if any). Depending on your location, UA might not even show up, or the most likely scenario is once they receive the notice of suit, they will reach out to you at a higher level than CS and negotiate a fair settlement.

Originally Posted by transportbiz

Yeah, in SC court at least here is CA you'll have to show financial loss. It has to be rather specific, and typically out-of-pocket. Some pro-tems or visiting Judges who don't know better will award pain and suffering.

If you incurred hotel expenses, meal expenses, no-show expenses, or had to reschedule the meeting and pay additional costs, those are tangible losses. If there is a specific policy on compensation for IDB (which there is) then absolutely you can claim that. Just bring it in writing.

As to repossessing a plane, not going to happen, but for sure you can till-tap, but it'd never come to that, United would pay the judgment, if you get one. They'd have 30-days to pay, or appeal the judgment. Appeals in SC court are rare, and usually require proof a legal error in occurred.

As to United not sending someone, don't count on that. They will for sure send someone! I've seen cases for all three of the majors AA flew someone from from Charlotte, DL and UA both flew in someone from Florida. They overnighted, rented a car, I'd estimate expenses were around $400 not counting the airfare (cause I don't know how they do that). In one case the claim was for $6,000, one was for $5,000 and one was for $6,500. Max in CA is $10,000 for an individual and $5,000 if a company is the plaintiff.

As to evidence, you can subpoena documentation that shows the time stamp of the off load time. Also, you can subpoena tapes from the TSA (though that one will be tough). You can provided a printed phone record, highlighting the call to United and testify as to what that call was about. If United fails to provide the documentation they can be held in contempt. Set the court date for at least 90-days out, so you can get the subpoenas done. Most courts have a small claims adviser who can help you out, and even help you find the service process for United in your state.

Originally Posted by flyersky1

The problem is I don't have actual damages. I had to cancel a business meeting but the missed opportunities are hard to estimate at this and longer-term. I managed to convince hyatt to waive my hotel cancellation fee. So my only quantifiable damage is the lost IDB. At this point I don't even care about compensation as much as to see justice served. Another concern is a possible retaliation from UA (miles confiscated, status revoked) or from the employees at LNK. Do you guys think these concerns are reasonable?

Originally Posted by bocastephen

1. the IDB is substantial enough to be a good return on your $50 filing fee
2. you can quantify the expected value of the missed opportunities - come up with a number you can justify
3. if UA retaliates (which they would not, given there is a slim chance this will ever actually get to trial, and they were in the wrong), that's an even bigger lawsuit
4. the employees at LNK are unlikely to know much more about this - and if they retaliate, what form would it take that you couldn't just re-escalate back?

Don't overthink it. UA is basically telling you to get lost (without the "right" people at UA knowing this is happening), so file the suit and wait for their response.

Originally Posted by transportbiz

As to repossessing a plane, not going to happen, but for sure you can till-tap, but it'd never come to that, United would pay the judgment, if you get one. They'd have 30-days to pay, or appeal the judgment. Appeals in SC court are rare, and usually require proof a legal error in occurred.

Originally Posted by fastflyer

20 years ago or so, I sued Citibank in Small Claims and won a treble-damage (there were quantifiable, actual damages) judgment. Citibank did not pay for many months, and so I had to proceed to get an arrest order issued in the jurisdiction, Suffolk County, Mass., which was enforceable on any officer of the corporation.

After a year, I saw in the Globe that one of their officers (COO, IIRC) was attending a golf tournament nearby with someone from State Street Bank, so I called the Sheriff of the county and got a named warrant on my previously issued arrest order, faxed it to Citi's legal department in NYC, and received an inbound wire transfer payment of the judgment in full within 20 minutes.