artvandalay

This entire episode should be cited in college classrooms everywhere as a classic example of how not to handle a crisis.

It's not like IRROPs are anything new to UA, or they've never landed in Goose Bay before or they're strapped for resources.

And the summer is just getting started.

Alpha Golf

Yes, but they weren't at the terminal. You can't just go strolling around military bases.

rafatmit

That's really nice and insightful. Well put. ^

uanj

This is the kind of episode that really bothers me with United. They too often do not own their problems and act like they bear no responsibility in the matter. They seem to forget they are transporting people, with biological needs and reasons to travel that may not accommodate United's lengthy delays.

What if you are travelling with an infant and need more diapers or food? Can you count on United to have your back and behave in a reasonable, humane manner? I don't think so and this is why UA is not for novice fliers and also why I never recommend UA to anyone any more. Not only are their operations unreliable but so are their recovery attempts.

Don't flame me but this is what I miss most about the old UA. They really tried harder to recover when something went wrong. The new UA is more similar to the old CO and assumes everyone will just have to shut up and put up with whatever they offer. Smisek epitomized this attitude when he publicly spoke against legislation to limit the number of hours you can sit on a plane without moving. Basically he said if CO (at the time) decided to keep passengers on a plane on the tarmac at EWR for 4-5 hours then that is the way it should be because CO is in the best position to make a decision on the matter. Treating people like they are boxed freight. And this attitude unfortunately prevails to this day at the new UA.

lhrsfo

I still find it amazing that UA could not find another plane and crew anywhere in the system. Bear in mind that they have a TATL JV with AC (and LH) and it would have been the easiest thing in the world to pick up the telephone to AC to ask them....but I suspect nobody thought of that.

Again, a slow reaction would have been understandable if they were also coping with meltdowns due to weather somewhere else, but not much was going on that night, so where were the duty staff whose job it it to handle IRROPS?

halls120

Very well said. ^^

phbl

i think it would be "absolutely horrible" to be in a Syrian or Malaysian refugee camp right now, or to be in such distress in Central America such that 8-10 year old children are crossing the Rio Grande by themselves or with a coyote, or to be fleeing north in the Mediterranean on an overloaded boat.

or if the plane crashed. or if it did a crash landing on a glacier in the middle of nowhere and half the plane suffered causalities.

this situation certainly sucks and UA certainly inconvenienced pax and probably did a poor recovery and i can understand for the anxious how this can be stressful but this is not "absolutely horrible".

i'm certain the people in the barracks can wander around outside, get air, use their cellphones, not worry that around the corner someone may shoot them because of what god they worship etc etc etc.

maybe flyertalk is not for me. yeah they're missing their wedding or work and UA certainly owes these people something but come on......fwp.

dmurphynj

Not trying to be a Pollyanna but....

None of us are route planners. I'm sure UA was in touch with LHR and would've continued direct if it made sense ... Or not.

Honestly, were that me, I'd have preferred the return to EWR before continuing to LHR. With my travel patterns, if I were a day or so late getting to LHR, it's likely be a trip in vain, so I'd rather just go home.

Now, in an ideal world, they would've polled the passengers, asked 'who wants to continue and who wants to go back?' and flew two planes in - one to EWR and one to LHR. Might've been able to sub a pair of 752's instead of a 763 this way.

We know LHR has among the most restrictive set of landing slots and rules, so I'm sure that plays into this somehow as well.

Lots of armchair route planning possible - some of which will be right, some of which won't.

But the simple fact is that none of us are armed with all the info the ops center people had; things are ALWAYS a lot more complex than they seem.

JBord

The local news in Chicago this weekend said they did not have access to their luggage.

Just catching up with this thread now, it's good to see no one here is defending UA. What struck me is UA telling the passengers there would be a plane to LHR in the morning and then basically cutting off communication. Poor communication has been the hallmark of this company over the last few years.

BearX220

That's probably the worst part -- the misinformation and radio silence (even now!), as if it makes no difference what you tell your customers, what they believe, etc. let alone if and when they get to London. Smisek is all about cutting expenses but ironically better communication is practically cost-free. They just feel they never have to explain or defend their actions to the "boxed freight" as they are screwing everything up.

The weather might have been nice in Goose Bay but that's the factor that would have made this a real trip from hell.

The arrogance is as astounding as the silence itself. If this had happened to a VS flight there's a chance Richard Branson himself would have been aboard a fast-dispatched rescue aircraft: first out the door and down the steps, hugging old ladies on the ramp, distributing free-trip chits personally, apologizing for media, etc. Think of it. Such action wouldn't cross Smisek's mind, in part because I doubt the RCAF on site could guarantee his physical safety if the passengers spotted him.

NewportGuy

What struck me was how the crew took absolutely NO responsibility for the passengers at all. What happened to the captain being responsible for his passengers? They all ran off to the hotel like a bunch of cowards. Why couldn't even one crew member stay behind and help passengers? Another case of "not my job, man"?

halls120

I agree that none of us have insight into what was facing the UA ops center. That said, on a recent AA flight, we ended up leaving 4 hours late due to a variety of mx issues. Between the pilot coming out twice to talk to us, and the CSRs, we were given updates every 20-25 minutes throughout the delay. Was that practical for the passengers stranded in Goose Bay? Maybe not, but the lack of communication here is clearly driving the anger of some passengers, and communication is easy, provided you put a priority on it. In this instance, UA didn't.

bse118

Well, now next time any of our travel goes awry we'll [hopefully] be able to say: "At least I'm not in a barracks at Goose Bay."

This really is a benchmark for failing at IROPS. The whole thing reeks of on-the-fly contingency planning. You'd think an airline of UA's scale would have recovery plans in place to work from.*

( * especially given their operational familiarity with certain eastern Canada airports )

Kmxu

The cut, cut, and more cuts can explain what happened in this event. There were not enough spare aircraft, spare crews and spare funds to do a better job. The top of the UA management should take personal responsibility for this failure. Apologize for it and promise to do a better job next time.

DL2SXM

How many remember the Delta 777 diversion to the Ascension Islands last year? Within 4 hours, Delta sent a replacement 777 to pick up the stranded passengers. So, within 4 hours of the diversion, late at night, Delta was able to scrounge up not only a plane but a flight crew to fly nearly 10 hours to pick up the stranded passengers and crew. The UA flight was 3 hours or so from any number of UA hubs. That UA couldn't or wouldn't revolve this matter more expeditiously is truly sad and pathetic. This isn't about the lack of accommodations at YYR folks, its about the ineptitude of United Airlines.