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They might surprise you with a herringbone-headed move

lensman

Sunday and Monday flights to Europe seem to me to get filled up with paying pax. Part of the yield management equation is that day-of-week is important and you really have to stay on top of destination, time of year, day of week, time of day, etc. You don't have infinite variability in gauge and if UA is like AA you don't control the schedule and fleet utilization - that's done by another department. You just have to sell out the seats that they put in the schedule.

I think the key is being a side-sleeper, angling your legs asymmetrically to stagger your feet, and pointing your toes like a ballerina "en pointe".

Either that or make sure you get a bulkhead seat since it has the wider footwell.

halls120

To be precise, pmUA embarked on putting flat beds on all international flights before the merger, so Smisek can't take credit for that one.

He can take credit for continuing to install a now-obsolete J seat, however.

sbm12

UA also stopped before the merger to save cash. Choosing to finish the job rather than start anew was, IMO, the more practical choice. The seats are neither the best nor the worst in the market. They keep a higher density which allows more to be sold and the company didn't have to spend millions extra per plane to remove the already installed seats. Also, even at the end of the install process UA (or today) UA is ahead of many competitors in offering lie-flat biz seats on all long-haul flights.

The costs associated with changing out the seats every 3 years as something new comes along are significant. Every carrier makes a huge investment when deciding to buy in to a product and the development life cycle is not short. It is not like an individual buying a new big screen TV each year for $1000 because they like the new features.

bmwe92fan

+1 - Agree in principal. The only issue I have with this perspective is that the investment in upgrades to business class product are a capital expense and have zero impact on reported earnings. UA has decided that instead of investing in the future of business class travel with their cash they have decided that what they have is good enough - and also take every chance to attack competion (i.e. the G3) that have a signifcantly better product. It seems that UA has decided that they have better uses for their capital than investing in their product (and their future). I believe that in the long run this will be one of the final nails in their coffin...

halls120

I'm not suggesting that UA rip out the pmUA IPTE seats on the 777s and 767s, or on the sCO 777s and 764s. I do question why they would not have developed a better and more modern seat for the 787, an aircraft that is going to be around for the next 20 years.

Longboater

In response to a few comments, I'll put it this way. Delta is in the process of selecting a next generation 1-2-1 J class seat for their A350-900s, arriving in two years. This seat will likely be installed on their 777s, replacing the first generation of 1-2-1 seating which was first unveiled seven years ago. Considering Delta is probably going to replace their first generation of direct aisle access seats with a new one shows you how far behind United is. While those testing the new seats didn't mention anything revolutionary, the fact that Delta wants to be up to date on 1-2-1 seating in J, shows you where their priorities are. Also considering the potential reduction in J class seating for the transition from a 2-4-2 format to a 1-2-1 format. Delta was able to fit the same number of J class seats on the A330 in the same space as when they inherited NW's 2-2-2 J class. Delta has chosen to reduce the number of J class not as a result of the 1-2-1 format, but rather increase the load factor of J and sell more seats in the rear. Keep in mind Delta only gives out 4 SWUs to DMs as an option, albeit without fare restrictions, and one can only upgrade with miles on M Class fares or above.

CALMSP

while I agree with you (don't fall off your chair), making a move simply b/c a competitor does it that will generate less revenue isn't necessarily something to jump at. And given the demand to increase revenue without added expense, or operating something when you can generate more revenue as is (or elsewhere.....BKK) is what the current state of the airline is in.

as for customer moving elsewhere, I struggle at finding available business class seats.

sannmann

Be careful what you wish for. While new, nicer J seats on the pmUA 777 would be great, installing them may mean fewer seats for upgrades.

MatthewLAX

I'm so sick of the complaining comparing the PMUA C-Class seat - even in the middle -- to economy class by those who do not pay for their tickets.

Really?

It is still better than the the AA J-seat still present in in most of its 77s and lack of floor space aside, remains quite comfortable in a sitting and sleeping position. For those who don't have company-paid travel, it also allows for a relatively easy upgrade...a proposition that would be dashed if 2-4-2 went to 1-2-1.

bmwe92fan

Don't agree with this at all as the assumption that there would be less J seats available for potential upgrade simply isn't true! Other carriers have managed to maintain approoriate J density by converting to 1-2-1 - UA can do the same....

Baze

The whole concept of your money vs other peoples money is ridiculous. It is still my butt in that seat whomever paid for it.

AppleApe

true... UA's C is still okay... but when I'm paying for my own ticket and I don't need to sleep, I'd rather buy true premium economy.(most carriers have 2-4-2 premium economy seats on 777 and 747)

mre5765

The competition has 1-2-1. It is the new industry standard. And the competition charges less than UA.

UnitedFFinAsia

I agree if paying full fare business the 2-4-2 layout stinks. However, when trying to upgrade from Y as a 1K I am fine with it. Not ideal but acceptable. What would be nice is if United did a true premium economy on long haul that was 2-4-2 layout with slightly wider seats.