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RDM earnings for UA tickets / UA operated flights - based on spend (PQD, now PQPs)

Old Mar 12, 2015, 5:52 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Initial announcement thread - 2015 MileagePlus Change - RDMs Will Be Calculated by Spend, Not Distance
Update 2019 -- includes all partner flights on 016 ticket
for non-016 ticket , see Earning Status (PQP) on non-016 Tickets and Partner Metal

Spend-based mileage (RDM) earning for all UA metal flights effective March 1, 2015.
Redeemable Miles (RDM) changes highlights:
  • Miles earned will now be based on the ticket price instead of the number of miles flown
  • Ticket price is defined as base fare plus carrier-imposed surcharges (PQD)
  • Class of service bonuses have been discontinued (e.g. X% more on A fares).
  • There is a limit of 75,000 miles earned per ticket (see below for spending limits by status)

Multipliers based on Premier status: & (breakeven CPM)
  • x5 General Members -- (20 cpm)
  • x7 Silver -- (17.86 cpm)
  • x8 Gold -- (18.75 cpm)
  • x9 Plat -- (19.44 cpm)
  • x11 1K/GS -- (18.18 cpm)

For example, a 1K would earn 1100 miles for a $100 ticket while a Silver would earn 700 miles for the same ticket.

Note that for itineraries which span the March 1 changeover date, the existing scheme will apply to any segment departing prior to March 1 , the new scheme will apply to the segments departing March 1 or after.

Appears no extra mileage for using a Chase MP card than the standard card mileage earning


As there is a maximum number of miles per ticket earned - this disincentives purchasing any ticket (excluding government taxes and fees) over the following:
  • $6818.18 for 1K/GS
  • $8333.33 for Platinum
  • $9375.00 for Gold
  • $10714.28 for Silver
  • $15000.00 for General Members

A way to avoid this is booking one-ways if the fare rules permit.

Premier Qualifying Miles (PQM) are not affected by this change.


Announcement Sitewww.mileageplusupdates.com
There is a tool on the site that allow you to enter how much you spent on a ticket along your premier status in order to calculate how many miles you will earn under the new system. The tool is aware of the miles per ticket limit.

There is a FAQ here: http://mileageplusupdates.com/faq.html

Relevant UA Insider posts:
Post 57: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23008349-post57.html
Originally Posted by UA Insider
Hi everyone,

Today were announcing changes to how MileagePlus members will earn award miles in 2015. Weve posted complete details and a FAQ on united.com, but I wanted to share an excerpt of the key points with you directly:

As of March 1, 2015, the award miles you earn on most United and United Express tickets will be based on your ticket price (that is, base fare plus carrier-imposed surcharges) and your MileagePlus status, instead of the distance you travel. The new criteria for earning award miles will look like this:

<portion removed for brevity>

The changes to earning award miles will apply to all MileagePlus members worldwide, and will be based on status at the time of flight on or after March 1, 2015. These changes will not affect the qualification requirements for 2015 Premier status. PQM and PQS will still be based on the number of paid flight miles traveled and the fare purchased. And where applicable, PQD will still be determined by the base fare and carrier-imposed surcharges.

As mentioned above, there are more details and a FAQ posted online, and over the next few days well be communicating this information to our members.
Answered Questions:
Originally Posted by SunLover
So a 1K purchasing a $5,000 EWR-NRT ticket would earn 55,000 miles plus the 1K additional RDMs?
Class of service bonuses have been discontinued under the new system. There is already an adjustment for 1K over general members.

Originally Posted by ckidder331

LAX-Intl Location in Business Class as a Premier Gold

Would a $5,000 ticket in Business class to Asia earn:

5000 x 8 = 40,000 (Premier Gold earning)
5000 x .75 = 3750 (Class of Service bonus)
43,750 Total
For tickets that will earn award miles based on ticket price, the class-of-service bonus and Premier bonus will be included in the number of award miles you earn per dollar. Basically COS has been removed.

Originally Posted by mikelcf
...On the mileageplus announcement site and FAQ site it lists only 1K's. With respect to most mileage levels, etc. UA usually treats GS the same as 1K, so I assume that's the case here, but has anyone seen anything specific to GS?
E-mail received by GS lists 1K and GS together.



Unanswered Questions:
Originally Posted by a9504477
...Would this apply also to UA flights not on 016 stock? And if not, what would be the best way of purchasing such?
Unknown, but the FAQ indicates that all UA and UAx flights issued by ANY airline would be subjected to the new earning rates. There are exceptions (group tickets, bulk tickets, etc) like "Specialty Tickets" as mentioned below.

Originally Posted by raehl311
Do elite bonuses still apply to those [specialty] tickets?
It is mentioned in the FAQ: If applicable, Premier bonus award miles will be based on a members Premier status and the lower of the distance flown or miles awarded, per the chart above. Basically the bonus miles will be awarded but based on the lower number (i.e. distance flown for higher fares or the % based on fare). A 1K passenger purchasing F-fare from EWR-SFO would get only a 2565 mile bonus while a N-fare would get (50% of 2565) 1283 mile bonus. Still unclear what are the percentage bonus of each premier level but assume that it is the same (100% GS/1K, 75% Plat, 50% Gold, 25% Silver).

Specialty Tickets:
Originally Posted by iloveipods
Specialty tickets that earn award miles in the current program (including, but not limited to consolidator/bulk, group, tour and other tickets where the fare paid is not disclosed on the ticket) will earn award miles based on a percentage of the distance flown and the purchased fare class as of March 1, 2015. Please refer to the chart below for details.

Eligible fare classes
Flight operated by United and United Express
150% - J, C, D, Z, P, F, A
100% - Y, B, M
75% - E, U, H, Q, V, W
50% - S, T, L, K, G, N
Print Wikipost

RDM earnings for UA tickets / UA operated flights - based on spend (PQD, now PQPs)

Old Mar 8, 2015, 1:30 pm
  #151  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: 2000 miles from somewhere
Programs: EY Gold, GF Gold, IHG Plat, UA Gold
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by LaserSailor
So lets see - on a Gold RDM factor of 5x, you paid about 300 USD for this trip before taxes?

I think anyone can see why a mileage redemption of old, 2x12090 or about 24000 RDMS, at a valuation of even 1cpm, of 240 USD didn't last.
There were 7 segments on UA for this trip. The only common two segments for comparison were the LAX-HKG route. I have no idea what the individual segment pricing for this route was but as you point out, it seems it is valued at $150 for each of these legs.

Originally Posted by mduell
You paid $93 to be flown about a third of the way around the world, I can see why UA doesn't want to reward that behavior.
Behaviour? Who's behaviour?

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Mar 8, 2015 at 4:03 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
rascally14 is offline  
Old Mar 8, 2015, 2:09 pm
  #152  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: sf bay area
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 434
Originally Posted by JBord
Yeah, this is the biggest miss. The only real advantage to Platinum now is boarding group and maybe the 2 RPUs. I was close enough to consider it this year, but chose not to as I didn't see the benefit.
Agreed about feeling that the 9x is too low. For me, with 3 other family members, the free award changes and E+ for my family have really come in handy. But I recognize that my usage is different from others. A single friend was recently asking me about the $500 buy up offer she had from gold to platinum was worth it, and I told her absolutely not. For me, though the decision would not have been so clearcut.

I'm one of those who is not leaving United as I did a few years ago, when I escaped to CO (jokes on me). This is pretty much only because of the specific route that I need to fly, and not out of any sense of loyalty. Still, my experiences have been consistently positive over the last couple of years. Hopefully, that will continue.
tomsundstrom is offline  
Old Mar 8, 2015, 2:27 pm
  #153  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K/MM, AA GLD
Posts: 1,706
Originally Posted by rascally14
There were 7 segments on UA for this trip. The only common two segments for comparison were the LAX-HKG route. I have no idea what the individual segment pricing for this route was but as you point out, it seems it is valued at $150 for each of these legs.
Do you perhaps mean EWR-HKG? UA doesn't fly LAX-HKG anymore, and UA 179/180 are the flight numbers for EWR-HKG/HKG-EWR (and no, there's no "direct" flight LAX-EWR-HKG).
rob_flies_ua is offline  
Old Mar 8, 2015, 6:23 pm
  #154  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: lax
Programs: 1k
Posts: 440
March 5 I completed LAX to Singapore.

It is showing I got miles credited under the old system.

Should I call and report it.?
Asiatraveler15 is offline  
Old Mar 8, 2015, 6:38 pm
  #155  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: AA DULtArer
Posts: 5,549
Originally Posted by Asiatraveler15
March 5 I completed LAX to Singapore.

It is showing I got miles credited under the old system.

Should I call and report it.?
No, but the audit and clawback code in Shares is the most solid piece...

Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
...Someone incorrectly decided that outstanding miles should be a liability on the books, which I strongly disagree with given there is no actual liability or cost until a ticket is redeemed ...
About 80% of miles are redeemed, so they are a liability on the airlines. The airlines can choose to account for them in many ways, but once you choose, you are stuck with it....or else you have a lot of 'splaining. They don't just float in accounting zero land until someone books award travel.

On edit...I correct that to 80% of earned miles are in play, about 20% expire. The redemption rate of that 80% is unknown to me.

Last edited by LaserSailor; Mar 8, 2015 at 7:06 pm
LaserSailor is offline  
Old Mar 8, 2015, 6:53 pm
  #156  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,741
Originally Posted by LaserSailor
No, but the audit and clawback code in Shares is the most solid piece...



About 80% of miles are redeemed, so they are a liability on the airlines.
Do you have a source for that percentage? That seems very high to me.
Always Flyin is offline  
Old Mar 8, 2015, 7:02 pm
  #157  
Moderator: United Airlines
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,580
Originally Posted by RealFan
I think this is the crux of the matter. I can't debate with you or anyone whether outstanding miles should be treated as a liability but the fact remains that this is how they are treated right now. So DAL and UA have decided to reduce this liability over time and redistribute miles purely to those who spend more. ...
Appears FASB also is encouraging changes {referenced in this EY report} with flight miles more considered deferred revenue vs the incremental cost method.

Disclaimer - IANACPA but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express with a CPA.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Mar 8, 2015 at 7:22 pm Reason: disclaimer
WineCountryUA is offline  
Old Mar 8, 2015, 7:03 pm
  #158  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bangkok or San Francisco
Programs: United 1k, Marriott Lifetime PE, Former DL Gold, Former SQ Solitaire, HH Gold
Posts: 11,886
Originally Posted by rascally14
There were 7 segments on UA for this trip. The only common two segments for comparison were the LAX-HKG route. I have no idea what the individual segment pricing for this route was but as you point out, it seems it is valued at $150 for each of these legs.

Behaviour? Who's behaviour?
That would be you. Giving you 12k miles for less than $100 is a major loss for the airline. The math simply shows it to be unsustainable. So now they give you less than 1k miles and the benefits are more in line with the costs.

That is the intent of this change. Quit rewarding low cost flyers at the same rate that they reward high value flyers.

Now, with your more detailed explanation the calculation might be different. You should be able to go to your MP account and see a breakdown by segment flown. At least you could do that prior to March 1.

Check that out and report those numbers back, if you would.
Tchiowa is offline  
Old Mar 8, 2015, 7:04 pm
  #159  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: AA DULtArer
Posts: 5,549
Originally Posted by Always Flyin
Do you have a source for that percentage? That seems very high to me.
If you look in financial statements you will see that the airlines state they anticipate breakage of 20%, which I believe is mostly attributable to miles timing out. I guess that is not the same as redemption rate, though. It makes sense that they have to hold those on the books though.

I corrected below. I hate inaccurate stuff on the Internet.

The rough cost of an award ticket to an airline is also given in the financials, at about 15 USD. I wonder how many people will MR if they realised they redeem miles earned at 4cpm which cost the airline 0.06cpm?
LaserSailor is offline  
Old Mar 8, 2015, 7:28 pm
  #160  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York, NY
Programs: Hyatt GLOB, Marriott Lifetime PLT, UA 1K 1MM.
Posts: 1,728
i went ORD-EWR last week. it was an M fare at $397. earned me 4,367 RDM's and in the old system it would have gotten me 1,438 RDM's. positive of 2,929.

i also went EWR-SFO last week. it was a W fare at $193. earned me 2,123 RDM's and in the old system it would have gotten me 5,130. negative of 3007.

it's a point example, but then i look at my aggregate yearly total for 2014.

i had 112,947 PQM's last year and spent $24,539 PQD's. and 101.5 segments if that matters. my airline activity earned me 220,314 RDM's according to my statements.

in the new system i would have gotten 269,929 RDM's for a gain of 49,615 RDM's.

it's a little more, but not by much. guess everyone's situation differs depending on your flying habits, but at 1K/GS for those who purchase Y and under, it might not be all that bad, so long as long haul international flights aren't the majority of your tickets. then you might get squeezed on discount economy tickets. but in the old system, segment flyers on last minute tickets got the shaft. when i covered the eastern territory and my flights were primarily NYC-BOS/DCA/CVG/ORD/RDU/etc., i felt i always got the short end of the stick because i would spend $1,000 on a last minute ticket... and then net 1,500 RDM's.

i guess my point is, there's no perfect system and someone will always get screwed. personally, i like the new system given my travel habits.
bob_the_d is offline  
Old Mar 8, 2015, 8:27 pm
  #161  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: ORD / PHX
Programs: UA LT 1K 3MM (former 12 yr GS), Bonvoy Amb/LT Plat
Posts: 1,332
FRA-ORD Paid F (not sure of fare class):

1/31 (and all prev) 15,197 RDM each way
3/1 72,655 RDM one way (+378%)

me likey!

Return hasn't posted yet, but assume it will only be 2,345 RDM to hit the 75k cap.

Note to self - book as 2 one-ways next time.
tcdtcd is offline  
Old Mar 8, 2015, 8:31 pm
  #162  
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bangkok or San Francisco
Programs: United 1k, Marriott Lifetime PE, Former DL Gold, Former SQ Solitaire, HH Gold
Posts: 11,886
Originally Posted by tcdtcd
FRA-ORD Paid F (not sure of fare class):

1/31 (and all prev) 15,197 RDM each way
3/1 72,655 RDM one way (+378%)

me likey!

Return hasn't posted yet, but assume it will only be 2,345 RDM to hit the 75k cap.

Note to self - book as 2 one-ways next time.
Is the 75k cap for the R/T or each segment?

Never mind, looked it up, it's per ticket. So, yes it would be a significant advantage to book as separate tickets.
Tchiowa is offline  
Old Mar 8, 2015, 8:33 pm
  #163  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: ORD / PHX
Programs: UA LT 1K 3MM (former 12 yr GS), Bonvoy Amb/LT Plat
Posts: 1,332
I think its RT. Or at least 'per ticket'. Gotta book one-ways to avoid the cap, from what I've been told.
tcdtcd is offline  
Old Mar 8, 2015, 8:34 pm
  #164  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5,814
Originally Posted by Tchiowa
Is the 75k cap for the R/T or each segment?
Round Trip
edcho is offline  
Old Mar 8, 2015, 8:37 pm
  #165  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: US left coast
Programs: *wood Marriott P-life, *alliance UA MM, AA MM
Posts: 167
Originally Posted by greg99
mixed bag - I do business trips on the West Coast (big win), transcon (big lose, because I usually book a couple of weeks in advance) and internationally (big win because it's in C). The issue is that I do quite a bit of leisure travel, especially international, and I will lose *big time*. ...

The problem is that the package of changes that UA has made (especially the near elimination of domestic upgrades) recently has made my 1K membership much less valuable to me than my default MM Gold membership, so I'm more likely to spread that international C travel around to other carriers.
Greg99 nails it well:
transcon: better to go AA, especially to reach 1MM perma-gold
shorthops on west coast: slightly better in new plan vs. old
international: miles better on OneWorld or *A partners, esp for inner circle of *A (AC, ANA, Austrian, Brussels, Lufthansa, Swiss) that award extra 25-100% bonus for silver/gold/plat/1K 1MM
int'l lounge access, checkin better on *Alliance. 1 MM AA still does not allow partner lounge access.

Limited incentive to fly united to reach 2MM, but is(will) that be worth anything?

Biggest errors on United's part is sowing confusion: many moving and interlocking parts (and changing rules)
- award miles (have to watch fare class more closely on partners)
- qualifying miles (but doesn't matter for MM unless you exceed 50K and you beat qual$))
- qualifying dollars (hard to know target at beginning of year, and hard to read from a ticket price just how much is a united dollar vs. a fee, tax, or other cost.)

United has obscured the answer "yes" to the question "should I take United for this flight?" They've even made the answer "no" for long haul flights. Anyone who remarks that United wants to downplay incentives to take those longhaul flights should bear in mind that United has those fare buckets already in place. No point in flying them empty - granted, UA would prefer to move a seat to a higher fare class.

the unknown utility of miles was already making long term incentives cloudy. I really slowed counting existing miles and upgrades, because I could rarely seem to use them. Economy plus and early boarding remained good incentives.

Ultimately, they've made flights even more transactional, rather than relationship based. And that transaction is as likely to go elsewhere.
cyberjet is offline  

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