Karl-MDW

I got switched a couple of week ago on a 777 from ORD to SFO. I selected the flight because of the 2 seat (window, aisle) configuration. I was eventually even able to get an exit row window.

The day before departure the aircraft was swapped. UA eventually put me in 18A with no other available seats when I looked.

I hoped for an upgrade, but I was #36 on a list of 78.

At first I really felt crammed in. I was also annoyed that Group 2 was the last to board. Yes, they boarded Group I through Gate A and 2, 3, 5 through door B. Finally, they let Group 2 board through door A. We had to walk through the first class cabin and merge at door 2 with Group 2 - 5 that was already in the aisle.

After stewing for a while, finally had to convince my self that this is UA, and I had better get used to the new configurations. At least we had pillows in Y and blankets (thick sheets, really).

Once I got in the frame of mind that this is a "first world" problem, the flight was OK. I got there on time, I survived, and I am here to tell about it!

ethernal

I'm very familiar with the contract of carriage. And yes, I am aware that there is significant flexibility in what a carrier is allowed to do with regards to getting someone from point A to point B.

With that said, since you were being pedantic: if you want to put a lawyer hat on, be aware that FTC and courts would not let a one sided consumer facing contract override fair business practices. Systemically providing customers false information (United presenting incorrect seat maps and flight information when they know this information is incorrect - i.e., not just that it may change in the future with reasonable cause, but that it has already changed) would easily fall under misleading advertising if the information is considered relevant to consumer decision making. In this case, given the relative rarity of this event (and the fact it is probably more a delayed IT update / glitch than anything) would mean that it would not qualify as systemic, but if it was more pervasive it would definitely be considered false/misleading advertising by the FTC/courts - regardless of whether the contract of carriage would appear to absolve United of responsibility.

ethernal

This was my hypothesis as well, but their systems are booking for 336 Y tickets. As soon as I noticed the change on my aircraft, I looked at switching my routing through ORD (which I knew also flew the 9 abreast seating originally). That flight had also just swapped to the v5 configuration. And lo and behold, it only had 2 Y fare availability. I doubt that they managed to sell 18-22 additional Y tickets to make up the seat difference in a few hours. Unless they were overbooking the original flight by 15-20 seats more than they are overbooking the current flight, it appears that they were selling for 364 seats: 28 in F and 336 in Y.

Certainly possible (overbook the old configuration by 20 in expectation that they switch to the v5, and just in case they don't they keep F happy by ensuring they aren't bamboozled) - but that's not exactly great practice either. Understand the operational difficulties of running a transitioning fleet, but just seems like poor management on UA's end either way.

Kacee

The FTC has no jurisdiction over air carriers.

And good luck bringing a lawsuit on the ground that UA swapped you from one version of the 772 to another.

There is no way for you to know that unless you have access to internal UA data.

findark

I think it's perfectly reasonably to overbook Y by 20 in case of a ~55% and growing chance of 77G swap. It's a much larger cabin to shuffle things around in, and generally speaking you don't get angry pax from VDBing a few people the way you do if you downgrade paid F.

halls120

Just booked my first UA trip for 2017, a visit to the North State to visit my mother. On these trips, I fly IAD-SFO on Thursday, and return home on Sunday. For the past 17 years, that would have normally been the first nonstop of the day, currently UA 408 on a 777. Because I'm not chancing a switch to the 10 wide slaveship configuration, For the first time in 17 years, I chose a one stop flight back to IAD.

Yes, I detest the new configuration that much.

ethernal

Yes - you're right - the FTC does not have oversight with airlines (which is why I added "/courts" - it was a general statement about one sided contracts overruling fair business practice). And obviously yes, you're right that there is no way one would bring a suit over such a change - my point was that if it was a systemic practice (i.e., happened regularly and willfully) then there would be a case regardless of what the contract of carriage said. I was not at all trying to claim that I would go and file a complaint - I was responding to pull{ing} out the CoC in response to me saying that I felt like it was false advertising.


Yes, although based on the ORD-HNL route, it is clear they are massively overbooking Y knowing that they can pull in the v5 if required.

Fair point. It's intentional by United and probably their best move to maintain fleet flexibility. Still, doesn't change the fact that it annoys me to no end.

BBSHOPSINGER

Since these are domestic flights, the seats are almost exactly the same size as 737, where if you sit in a window seat, you will be in exactly the same situation. Are those who are avoiding this plane also completely avoiding 737s? Pretty hard to do on United flying domestically.

Kacee

I had the same thought. Putting aside the call button issue, I think I'd take the HD 772 in Y over a 739. The widebodies are quieter and feel much more spacious.

LASUA1K

100% agree! I was on another today SFO-ORD, I was in First, but I originally was in Y, and picked this over the other choices. They just need to fix the call button on version 5. Version 6 is much better. Even though I was in First, I still heard the call button today.

N104UA

UA only schedules planes a few days out (a week at max) and all the time they change in the time frame. So UA does not have false advertising as they honestly do not know what aircraft will be on that route when you book. As they reconfigure more and more a/c with the 28F config this problem will go away. They did the same thing when they introduced the lie flat on the international fleet starting in 2006, better to upgrade your F/C product than to downgrade it.

If UA would require that the 32F config flew ORD-SFO for a certian flight you may be waiting for a long time until one can naturally cycle through ORD which would cause a delay and make more people upset than someone not getting the 2-5-2 configuration. If you were that upset about the change you could have always contacted UA and asked for a flight change to a 737 on a different nonstop.

ethernal

Living in Atlanta I have the advantage of getting to often fly Delta's MD-88 and MD-90's with 18 inch seat widths. If I have to fly West Coast in Y I aim to get an MD-88/90 for this reason unless I can expect to get an empty seat next to me. Anything over 2-3 hours I try to avoid 737-x for the seat width issue (and these 777 actually have .1-.2 less than those). There's a huge difference between a 2-3 hour domestic hop and an 8-9 hour marathon. Sitting in a 17" seat means no laptop use (too rude to neighbor).

Different things for different folks. My chest size is 47-48" with shoulders that are 21-22" in width (I am not fat - BMI is ~24 - but 6' 4" with broad shoulders) so the extra width isn't trivial.

I have no problem paying extra for more space, but going from Y to F (or J on int'l) seems excessive in most cases when all I need is an extra inch or two. I happily pay for true premium economy with a 19"+ seat width when it's available. Just frustrating all around (especially in this case as I specifically picked this routing for the 18.3" seats) but I guess this is the way the industry is going and, as others have pointed out, buyers always beware...

Understand the scheduling logistics but let's be careful calling the 8-abreast lie flats an upgrade over the old 7-abreast recliners for some people. My upgrade on my return flight (which still shows the recliners) cleared, and I am ambivalent about whether they do a plane swap to the v5 even though it's a redeye. 19" seat width in J is a joke, which is why I never fly BusinessFirst (err, sorry, Polaris) on a United 777. The old recliners were 7 across with 22" width. No point in lying flat if you can't fit.

halls120

If I'm not buying discount F, the A320 is my go-to option. On my upcoming trip, UA has priced F on the 777 $1300 more than on other aircraft, so I'm connecting. They've lost their marbles if they think the barcalounger is worth that much money for a 4.5 hour flight.

MBS MillionMiler

I've noticed on the long flights I'm looking to book ORD-HNL-ORD, that there are no seats blocked for crew rest. Wasn't 1BC supposed to be blocked for crew use? I think I even recall seeing them blocked early on last time I was possibly going to fly the new config. (I haven't yet, so I don't know).

Can I select them without worry?

Additionally, what's best for a party of three that includes a youngster? Take 3 of 4 in the center or a window pair with a cross aisle? (Thinking that, because won't be so bad to have aisle access instead of me being the guy in the middle). How do they line up compared to other aircraft with these seats? Would 2BCD or 3BCD be good, or are they misaligned like they are on the 747's forward upper deck?

findark

I think there's an argument for 3 seats together in the center section. Sharing the middle two seats with your child seems like a decent arrangement.