cova

You simply don't have this issue at AA. SWU's don't require a co-pay and work on any fare. When CO first introduced SWU's - there was no minimum fare code - this made it simple.

On AA upgrades to business book into C class. And even if C class shows 0 in ExpertFlyer - AA has hidden availability for EXP, just like they have better reward availability for EXP for flights including transcon F. I just don't have a problem getting an F reward for my feeder flight to an AA international premium cabin reward.

Just a world of difference. UA really needs to rethink how they handle upgrades.

LaserSailor

It is scary how thin the media has become,agreed. The WSJ in particular.

ZZYZXROAD

BuyUps, TODs whatever you want to call it, UA has just too many elites for the capacity. When there are 20 1ks sitting in C with countless Plats and Golds and only 20 seats, selling one or two F seats means nothing. Last weeks simple IAD> IAH 6pm flight called for GS to board and 6 boarded. Turned around and counted to the best of my ability and there was 48 people in group 1 and 44 in groups 2. Has nothing to do with one or two TOD, it's capacity, basic numbers game since 3/12.

VivoPerLei

Interesting system the current UA has. I think I much prefer Austrian's - when you book they ask you how much you are willing to pay to upgrade. If they accept your offer, you are on the hook, but you get the seat anyway.

iflyuaaa

I'm 100%cpu since back at aa this year including 3 jfk flat bed legs. I don't think the elite population is any worse or better at aa versus ua. I really believe tods is the difference.

Also I don't buy the argument that the elite population is worse now than pre 2012. Total number is more but total capacity is more. What matters is percentages. % of elites today I doubt is worse than before. I really believe tods is why ua upgrades suck. And why I'm so happy at aa and my 100% rate. Can't wait to get my swu and use them on any fare class.

iflyuaaa

And we just shut the door 10 mins early with 3 empty f

Often1

The solution to that is better internal processes. There is no reason why UA cannot code these advance UG payments in such a manner that if not used for the UG, at a sweep perhaps one business day after scheduled use, the cash is refunded to the original form of payment.

For a large business, presuming that it takes 2 business days for the sweep to locate the funds and 3 business days for the refund to issue, the credit should take 5 days (although some CC issuers are slow in crediting, but that has nothing to do with the UA "side" of the transaction.

I agree that willy-nilly initiation of pointless chargebacks is a bad thing and has its negative impacts on individual consumers, but in this case, if the refund is not processed in a timely manner, it is entirely appropriate for UA to be "dinged" for the extra fees and the labor associated with processing the transaction. It is easily avoided.

FlyWorld

It seems odd to me that there could still be "too many" elites. After Rainey's war on elites, a lot have left. I don't know anyone who chooses UA anymore.

Furthermore, the program devaluations (particularly, reducing earn rates on partner airlines, requiring all partner travel to be on 016 stock, and the convoluted PQD system) must have severely reduced the number of individuals qualifying for elite status.

Who are all these elites, then? Why do they continue to choose UA? Of the GS you mention, how many actually earned it by choosing to spend massive amounts of money on UA vs. how many were given it as a "gift/bribe" to secure corporate contracts? I'd guess that a much higher proportion of the remaining elites are now the result of gifts/bribes to secure corporate contracts than resulting from flyers who choose UA over competitors.

Customer service is not, and has never been, the target since the CO regime took control. This is about lining Jeff's pockets with as much cash as possible, as quickly as possible. With that logic, it makes much more sense to do nothing. By doing nothing, they get to keep the revenue from customers who don't notice that the refunds failed, and they get to save money by not fixing anything. These outcomes put more cash in Jeff's pocket. Fixing this would increase cost and reduce income.

PushingTin

The nature and relationship between airline continues to change, but the messaging from the airlines lags this.

Ever see an ad about buy ups?

The one trend that continues is dollarizing everything. That's not going to stop. It's driven by the third pass at a Pareto (80/20) analysis that about 1% of the fliers provide the airlines with about half of their profits. That's the GSers. Nothing else frankly matters- especially when airplanes are full. We start seeing seats going empty and all of a sudden those 1Ks and Plats start to be more important.

ETA: It isn't that their are too many elites, its just a capacity issue. The flights I'm on are 90%+ capacity, with a majority being 100% full with a waitlist. There aren't too many elites, there aren't enough seats. The net effect may look the same, but I think the driving force is different. The only real empty seats I see are on 'positioning' flights where UA is doing a flight as much to position a plane to support the hub system as it is to move customers.

Plus, UA has no major driver to limit the number of elites. Sure, they hand out more miles, but they just restrict or devalue them if that becomes an issue. It will take fliers to slowly realize that their status has little value and the airlines will have moved on from TODs to the next strategy.

halls120

I agree - it's a great process and an even better in flight experience.

dank0014

I personally don't have a problem with UA taking the money up front for a waitlist upgrade. I do have a problem with the following:
-GPU Lottery Game - pay more money and get waitlist
-Amount of time it takes UA to issue a refund, if they issue one at all.

I believe UA could have no problems setting expectations up front that the money (and miles) will be taken, but if you are not cleared, a refund would be processed within 24 hours, and they stick to that!

-Last 4 copays/miles I've requested: 1 cleared immediate, 3 were waitlist.
Out of those three, one refund processed automatically, 2 I waited for 10 business days and no refund, I submitted online refund request. Never heard anything from online refund request after two weeks, so called UA, and on the phone, agent was able to refund immediately both times

-Refund request on a refundable ticket. Waited two weeks, never received the refund - called 1K and they immediately took care of.

The issue is UA has failed to find a way to automatically have refunds issued (or they are purposely not doing it in hopes customers A) forget or B) to leverage the additional days as more float).

hans

I do believe (or at least observe) there are many more GS flyers than a couple of years ago and I suspect these are corporate bribes. That said, many of the rest of us continue to fly UA because we are hub captives. I can get from DEN to WAS on multiple, daily, direct flights. That makes my life easier and impacts my home/work ratio. Certainly wish there were other good options but AA and DL require a stop.

mgcsinc

I'll stick to United's system of getting to sit in F for free reasonably often. It's about infinity times more often than I'd be sitting up there if I had to pay.

FlyWorld

There are certainly lots of people like you, who choose UA because it's simply the airline that serves their routes best, and I also put schedule ahead of nearly any other consideration.

But, I don't think there's been explosive growth in the hub captive population, so while this segment of elites might remain constant, other segments should have declined, leading to an overall drop in elite count.

Why are there no upgrades? It's not because there are so many new elites competing for them. It's because Jeff is giving them away with TOD/HOD offers and super-cheap Z/P type fares that are fraudulently sold as F fares. That's why.

Nothing wrong with this. It's just how things are now.

And, as we both suspect, it does seem plausible that they've increased "giveaway" GS status to corporate accounts to keep contracts that otherwise would have been terminated as a result of the horrible customer service and operational performance that the team from Houston put in place.

luckypierre

How does this system work? Any guidance from the agent on the bid you make? Does the agent have any independence in accepting low bids or are they working from an internal guideline? Rebidding allowed if your first try is not even in the ball park. I understand that AirNZ has implemented an auction process.