Jan 19, 2015, 1:50 am
Last edit by: Kacee
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw (OJ)?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted.
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: It has become extremely difficult to book an open-jaw at the stopover. Best not to count on getting one.
Q: When I try to book my OJ itinerary online, the website errors out. Does that mean there is something wrong with my itinerary?
A: Not necessarily. The website typically can't handle complex itineraries. These must generally be called in.
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: No.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a "free one-way" I can get on a UA award?
A: The term "free one-way" is a misnomer and often confuses people (and may annoy the regulars here!). The technical definition of this concept is "stopover at origin." There have been mixed reports recently about UA's willingness to ticket a stopover at origin.
Important Notes - PLEASE READ:
1. Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it. This is probably the number one error made in attempting to construct a complex itinerary. If you have more than two stops >24 hours on a roundtrip award, it is not legal and will not ticket.
2. An open jaw always creates a stopover, even if you're stopping for less than 24 hours.
3. Many awards are subject to segment or "transfer" limitations. For example, the North America to South Asia award is currently restricted to four transfers in each direction.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Previous thread on this topic:
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Consolidated: Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights [2014]
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw (OJ)?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted.
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: It has become extremely difficult to book an open-jaw at the stopover. Best not to count on getting one.
Q: When I try to book my OJ itinerary online, the website errors out. Does that mean there is something wrong with my itinerary?
A: Not necessarily. The website typically can't handle complex itineraries. These must generally be called in.
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: No.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a "free one-way" I can get on a UA award?
A: The term "free one-way" is a misnomer and often confuses people (and may annoy the regulars here!). The technical definition of this concept is "stopover at origin." There have been mixed reports recently about UA's willingness to ticket a stopover at origin.
Important Notes - PLEASE READ:
1. Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it. This is probably the number one error made in attempting to construct a complex itinerary. If you have more than two stops >24 hours on a roundtrip award, it is not legal and will not ticket.
2. An open jaw always creates a stopover, even if you're stopping for less than 24 hours.
3. Many awards are subject to segment or "transfer" limitations. For example, the North America to South Asia award is currently restricted to four transfers in each direction.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Previous thread on this topic:
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Consolidated: Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights [2014]
Questions on Open Jaw/Stopover and Award Routings for United UA/*A Partners [2015]
Mar 4, 2015, 4:35 pm
#151
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 235
so i am flying EWR-BRU-FCO(stopover)-OPO(open jaw) BCN-MUC-EWR.
i am checking luggage. i presume (and intend) that my checked luggage will show up at each destination, even those with only a day (technically layover length like BRU and MUC)? it won't be shipped on to BCN, which i think is technically the destination?
multiple airlines:
EWR-BRU UA
BRU-FCO SN
FCO-OPO TP
BCN-MUC LH
MUC-EWR UA
any thoughts? :|
i am checking luggage. i presume (and intend) that my checked luggage will show up at each destination, even those with only a day (technically layover length like BRU and MUC)? it won't be shipped on to BCN, which i think is technically the destination?
multiple airlines:
EWR-BRU UA
BRU-FCO SN
FCO-OPO TP
BCN-MUC LH
MUC-EWR UA
any thoughts? :|
Mar 5, 2015, 12:40 am
#152
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: America!
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Explorist Caesars Wyndham Diamond, MGM Gold
Posts: 249
Can a stop-over be in a different region that is actually expensive?
For example, I am planning to visit IST (Turkey - Europe) and CAI (Egypt - Middle East) from MAA (India - Central Asia) and go back to India... IST falls under Europe and costs 45K business... But some flights from India to CAI go through IST and only costs 35K miles (business).. So wanted to do the "Trick" by having stopover at IST instead (while coming back from Egypt)...
Couple of days before, I was able to iternarize something like this...
MAA (India) - CAI (Egypt) (5 days)
OPEN-JAW
SSH (Egypt) - IST (Turkey) (5 days)
STOP-OVER
IST - MAA
Total was 70K plus taxes (business).. It does not want to work today.. But this works..
MAA - SSH
OPENJAW
CAI - IST (Funnily it shows flights only thru SSH which makes no sense since there are many direct flights with saver award)
STOPOVER
IST - MAA
The later does not work well for me.. What am I doing wrong with the former? If this is a "trick", please PM me and I can remove my post as well..
For example, I am planning to visit IST (Turkey - Europe) and CAI (Egypt - Middle East) from MAA (India - Central Asia) and go back to India... IST falls under Europe and costs 45K business... But some flights from India to CAI go through IST and only costs 35K miles (business).. So wanted to do the "Trick" by having stopover at IST instead (while coming back from Egypt)...
Couple of days before, I was able to iternarize something like this...
MAA (India) - CAI (Egypt) (5 days)
OPEN-JAW
SSH (Egypt) - IST (Turkey) (5 days)
STOP-OVER
IST - MAA
Total was 70K plus taxes (business).. It does not want to work today.. But this works..
MAA - SSH
OPENJAW
CAI - IST (Funnily it shows flights only thru SSH which makes no sense since there are many direct flights with saver award)
STOPOVER
IST - MAA
The later does not work well for me.. What am I doing wrong with the former? If this is a "trick", please PM me and I can remove my post as well..
Mar 6, 2015, 12:36 am
#153
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 237
US-SYD (stop) -ICN (stop) -US ...what's the correct award mileage?
Planning a trip from LAX-SYD-ICN-LAX. Since Asiana is now back on United, the routes are direct and nice.
Economic roundtrip is 80K from US-SYD but since United allows it via Asia, the website is letting me know book it, LAX - SYD (destination) - ICN (stopover) - LAX.
But business is being quoted as 150K for same route. With the same logic using economic, US-SYD roundtrip should be 140K.
And with the first leg Economic and remaining two Business, United is quoting 120K miles.
Can somebody help me how to understand the award pricing? Should I jump on the LAX-SYD (eco) / SYD-ICN (Bus) / ICN-LAX (Bus) which is asking 120K?
Economic roundtrip is 80K from US-SYD but since United allows it via Asia, the website is letting me know book it, LAX - SYD (destination) - ICN (stopover) - LAX.
But business is being quoted as 150K for same route. With the same logic using economic, US-SYD roundtrip should be 140K.
And with the first leg Economic and remaining two Business, United is quoting 120K miles.
Can somebody help me how to understand the award pricing? Should I jump on the LAX-SYD (eco) / SYD-ICN (Bus) / ICN-LAX (Bus) which is asking 120K?
Mar 7, 2015, 4:07 am
#154
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,449
I remember I found SFO-ICN-SYD-ICN-SFO for 110K RT in J, on Asaina which I thought was a great deal, but of course I can't get .bomb to replicate those flights, I should have taken it when it came up.. Finding J space to SYD is very tough, if you can handle LAX-SYD in Y, then go for it.
Mar 8, 2015, 8:55 pm
#155
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 140
I just had a strange conversation with United. I want to book AUA -> EWR -> HNL -> EWR (160k miles). Basically, a roundtrip to with a "free one-way". For some reason I couldn't get the United website to book this, so I put a hold on SJU -> EWR -> HNL -> EWR instead and then called United to make the change from SJU to AUA. The agent did this for me and confirmed the mileage would still be 165k since SJU and AUA are in the same region.
Then I made some other travel arrangements to line up a few things and called United back the next day to book it. The agent said the mileage wasn't listed on the reservation anymore for some reason, so she would need to get it quoted. She came back eventually with 165k. Then she said the taxes/fees weren't coming up and she would need to transfer me to the "technical" or "web" department since this originated online. I was transferred over after another wait, and the new agent said that the itinerary was invalid and I would have to book the AUA to EWR as a separate award. He was pretty impatient and rude about the whole thing and said I needed to ticket it now or he would cancel the reservation hold. I wanted to hang up and call again for better luck, but he said he was going to cancel the reservation hold if I didn't book the ticket right now. I didn't and the reservation was cancelled. And as luck would have it, the seats were not released back into the saver award inventory so now I can't call back and try again anyway. So much for putting a reservation on hold to make travel arrangements.
Is this routing valid? I've done this exact same thing before but started from STT instead of AUA. They're in the same Caribbean region according to their award chart. Any help would be appreciated.
Has anyone experienced having to book a reservation on hold "right now" or else it would be cancelled?
Then I made some other travel arrangements to line up a few things and called United back the next day to book it. The agent said the mileage wasn't listed on the reservation anymore for some reason, so she would need to get it quoted. She came back eventually with 165k. Then she said the taxes/fees weren't coming up and she would need to transfer me to the "technical" or "web" department since this originated online. I was transferred over after another wait, and the new agent said that the itinerary was invalid and I would have to book the AUA to EWR as a separate award. He was pretty impatient and rude about the whole thing and said I needed to ticket it now or he would cancel the reservation hold. I wanted to hang up and call again for better luck, but he said he was going to cancel the reservation hold if I didn't book the ticket right now. I didn't and the reservation was cancelled. And as luck would have it, the seats were not released back into the saver award inventory so now I can't call back and try again anyway. So much for putting a reservation on hold to make travel arrangements.
Is this routing valid? I've done this exact same thing before but started from STT instead of AUA. They're in the same Caribbean region according to their award chart. Any help would be appreciated.
Has anyone experienced having to book a reservation on hold "right now" or else it would be cancelled?
Mar 8, 2015, 9:03 pm
#156
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,762
I just had a strange conversation with United. I want to book AUA -> EWR -> HNL -> EWR (160k miles). Basically, a roundtrip to with a "free one-way". For some reason I couldn't get the United website to book this, so I put a hold on SJU -> EWR -> HNL -> EWR instead and then called United to make the change from SJU to AUA. The agent did this for me and confirmed the mileage would still be 165k since SJU and AUA are in the same region.
Then I made some other travel arrangements to line up a few things and called United back the next day to book it. The agent said the mileage wasn't listed on the reservation anymore for some reason, so she would need to get it quoted. She came back eventually with 165k. Then she said the taxes/fees weren't coming up and she would need to transfer me to the "technical" or "web" department since this originated online. I was transferred over after another wait, and the new agent said that the itinerary was invalid and I would have to book the AUA to EWR as a separate award. He was pretty impatient and rude about the whole thing and said I needed to ticket it now or he would cancel the reservation hold. I wanted to hang up and call again for better luck, but he said he was going to cancel the reservation hold if I didn't book the ticket right now. I didn't and the reservation was cancelled. And as luck would have it, the seats were not released back into the saver award inventory so now I can't call back and try again anyway. So much for putting a reservation on hold to make travel arrangements.
Is this routing valid? I've done this exact same thing before but started from STT instead of AUA. They're in the same Caribbean region according to their award chart. Any help would be appreciated.
Has anyone experienced having to book a reservation on hold "right now" or else it would be cancelled?
Then I made some other travel arrangements to line up a few things and called United back the next day to book it. The agent said the mileage wasn't listed on the reservation anymore for some reason, so she would need to get it quoted. She came back eventually with 165k. Then she said the taxes/fees weren't coming up and she would need to transfer me to the "technical" or "web" department since this originated online. I was transferred over after another wait, and the new agent said that the itinerary was invalid and I would have to book the AUA to EWR as a separate award. He was pretty impatient and rude about the whole thing and said I needed to ticket it now or he would cancel the reservation hold. I wanted to hang up and call again for better luck, but he said he was going to cancel the reservation hold if I didn't book the ticket right now. I didn't and the reservation was cancelled. And as luck would have it, the seats were not released back into the saver award inventory so now I can't call back and try again anyway. So much for putting a reservation on hold to make travel arrangements.
Is this routing valid? I've done this exact same thing before but started from STT instead of AUA. They're in the same Caribbean region according to their award chart. Any help would be appreciated.
Has anyone experienced having to book a reservation on hold "right now" or else it would be cancelled?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...rs-2015-a.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...2014-a-25.html
Mar 10, 2015, 11:16 am
#157
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: TX
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, AA Plat Pro
Posts: 446
Jackpot!!! I was able to land this routing
AUS - IAH - IST - DEL (United/Turkish business)
DEL - MAA - IXM (Jet airways business and economy on MAA - IXM... single cabin flight)
I will buy IXM - MAA (hang out for a few nights), MAA - MLE on Air India (yikes)
MLE - IST - IAH - AUS (Turkish, United business)
160K miles a person and $193 in taxes.
I got this for 2 passengers. I am super pumped that it all worked out on the exact dates I wanted. Thanks for everyones help!
AUS - IAH - IST - DEL (United/Turkish business)
DEL - MAA - IXM (Jet airways business and economy on MAA - IXM... single cabin flight)
I will buy IXM - MAA (hang out for a few nights), MAA - MLE on Air India (yikes)
MLE - IST - IAH - AUS (Turkish, United business)
160K miles a person and $193 in taxes.
I got this for 2 passengers. I am super pumped that it all worked out on the exact dates I wanted. Thanks for everyones help!
Mar 11, 2015, 8:39 am
#158
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8
Round trip award with one stopover, getting error
Hi everyone,
I'm trying to book a roundtrip award from the US to Africa with one stopover OR open-jaw in Europe on the return, but I keep getting an error, and I can't figure out which rule I'm violating.
Any ideas?
Looking for BOS-ACC, ACC-AMS, stop, AMS-BOS.
Thanks!
I'm trying to book a roundtrip award from the US to Africa with one stopover OR open-jaw in Europe on the return, but I keep getting an error, and I can't figure out which rule I'm violating.
Any ideas?
Looking for BOS-ACC, ACC-AMS, stop, AMS-BOS.
Thanks!
Mar 11, 2015, 8:51 am
#159
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
The website often chokes on the stopover. Just call it in.
Mar 11, 2015, 9:05 am
#160
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8
Thanks for the quick response.
If I booked the itinerary less than 24 hours ago and call to change the return to what I want, will they charge a change fee (since it's less than 24 hours) or a phone booking fee (if it was originally booked online?)
Ninja edit: No status
If I booked the itinerary less than 24 hours ago and call to change the return to what I want, will they charge a change fee (since it's less than 24 hours) or a phone booking fee (if it was originally booked online?)
Ninja edit: No status
Last edited by ghfly; Mar 11, 2015 at 9:06 am Reason: Clarification
Mar 11, 2015, 10:20 am
#161
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: GVA (Greater Vancouver Area)
Programs: DREAD Gold; UA 1.035MM; Bonvoy Au-197; PCC Elite+; CCC Elite+; MSC C-12; CWC Au-197; WoH Dis
Posts: 52,120
Welcome to FT, ghfly!
United is usually pretty good about not charging when you can't book online. This is a huge aadvantage over some other airlines (and no, that's not a typo).
United is usually pretty good about not charging when you can't book online. This is a huge aadvantage over some other airlines (and no, that's not a typo).
Mar 11, 2015, 9:18 pm
#163
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: PDX
Programs: UA Gold, SPG Gold, Club Carlson Gold, IHG Platinum, Marriott Gold
Posts: 8
Hey everyone,
So I have my flights booked, but I am looking to change a few things about my flights and wanted to see if I'm understanding the rules properly.
First, this is my booking:
6/16: PDX-YVR-TPE-PNH
7/8: BKK-NRT (stop for 17 hours)
7/9: HND-SFO-SNA
I called in to change my flights and was told that on a roundtrip I am only allowed one stopover and one open jaw. That can't possibly be true, since I have two open jaws, already. I was under the impression that international roundtrip tickets = 2 open jaws, one stopover.
Anyway, I called to change to this and the CSR wouldn't even check:
6/16: PDX-YVR (arrive at 8:38pm)
6/18: YVR-ICN-PNH (leave at 1:35pm)
7/8: BKK-NRT (stop for 17 hours)
7/9: HND-SFO-SNA
Is this actually not a legal routing? I understand that the stopover in YVR is greater than 24 hours, but wouldn't that be considered the stopover? And PNH would be considered the destination?
Thanks for your help!
So I have my flights booked, but I am looking to change a few things about my flights and wanted to see if I'm understanding the rules properly.
First, this is my booking:
6/16: PDX-YVR-TPE-PNH
7/8: BKK-NRT (stop for 17 hours)
7/9: HND-SFO-SNA
I called in to change my flights and was told that on a roundtrip I am only allowed one stopover and one open jaw. That can't possibly be true, since I have two open jaws, already. I was under the impression that international roundtrip tickets = 2 open jaws, one stopover.
Anyway, I called to change to this and the CSR wouldn't even check:
6/16: PDX-YVR (arrive at 8:38pm)
6/18: YVR-ICN-PNH (leave at 1:35pm)
7/8: BKK-NRT (stop for 17 hours)
7/9: HND-SFO-SNA
Is this actually not a legal routing? I understand that the stopover in YVR is greater than 24 hours, but wouldn't that be considered the stopover? And PNH would be considered the destination?
Thanks for your help!
Mar 21, 2015, 11:23 am
#164
Join Date: May 2004
Location: OAK
Programs: UA Gold MM / AS MVP Gold
Posts: 2,504
I'm trying to book SFO-HND-BKK-CTU-JZH. Return JZH to CTU. Stopover. Then CTU-HKG-ICN-SFO. Is this legal?
Mar 22, 2015, 7:32 am
#165
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: AVL
Posts: 216
First time really trying to put something together on United and I think I got success.
CLT>YYZ>NRT stopover 4days
NRT>SDJ>ICN>SYD destination
SYD>ICN(16HRS)>ORD>CLT
I was able to get to the price out page but did not complete booking(this was practice). I initially had trouble with .com completing the NRT>SYD but with multiple tries got it to stick. Based on what I have read I think this is legal and should be fully bookable. It was biz class with a couple of Econ seats for the under 2 hour segments. 160k miles per ticket. Not the lowest price but this was more an exercise in searching.
Anyone care to weigh in?
CLT>YYZ>NRT stopover 4days
NRT>SDJ>ICN>SYD destination
SYD>ICN(16HRS)>ORD>CLT
I was able to get to the price out page but did not complete booking(this was practice). I initially had trouble with .com completing the NRT>SYD but with multiple tries got it to stick. Based on what I have read I think this is legal and should be fully bookable. It was biz class with a couple of Econ seats for the under 2 hour segments. 160k miles per ticket. Not the lowest price but this was more an exercise in searching.
Anyone care to weigh in?
