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Originally Posted by Doc Savage
(Post 24159655)
*blah blah blah*...oil prices are down so current earnings estimates are higher, like all the airlines...*blah blah blah*
Gordon shared his honest sentiments. |
Originally Posted by nerdbirdsjc
(Post 24161395)
The integration mechanics themselves have been well discussed, but suffice it to say that legacy United was such a smoke-and-mirrors type of mess that no integration would have gone smoothly (which is partly why UA stayed single for so long even after years of telegraphing merger interest).
Also, curious in general - does pmCO remind any of you of (current) pmUS? I see some similarities - fortress hubs (PHL/PHX/CLT; EWR/CLE/IAH), a smaller footprint, mostly domestic traffic with limited, secondary international destinations (no Australia or Africa with both, for example), a more cheap, chintzy operation (pmCO offered better F meals, though, probably due to Chelsea being in-house), etc. Does anyone else see the similarities? |
How did nobody not notice the continued swipes at United in his statement? Less than ideal leadership team Jeffie didn't have total control of, Chairman and CEO being different for two years. That's a swipe at Glenn Tilton and other UAL executives.
Originally Posted by Gordon Bethune
The constraints of the recent merger agreement did not allow the new CEO a free hand in making decisions about executive personnel or other strategic moves for two years. That was just a cost of getting an agreement. The agreement was vital to the long term viability of CAL. It needed to happen and so sacrifices were made.
While understandable,many employees were not accustomed to poor operational performance that were a result of less than optimum operational planning and decision making. This guy's irrational hatred for UA knows no bounds, and his ego is a huge reason why we have this mess today. This guy loves Jeff and isn't lying in public to save face. It's a like a son carrying out daddy's work to destroy the enemy (United). And if you think the grass would be greener with this clown in charge, we'd have no United name or CHI HQ and this guy would've decimated every last trace of UA that Jeff and his gang somehow missed. And if you don't believe me, here is straight from the horse's mouth at the end of the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy5b-DXeuqQ I find it absolutely sickening, and so should every legacy UA employee, that a man who tried to put them out of a job, called them HIV+, and tried for years to get them denied loans to force them into BK, is called a hero, praised on official FB page, and has his name on a UA plane, where as Alfred C. Haynes, Pat Patterson and other great people who actually have something to do with United, have nothing. |
The last thing Mr Bethune would do is publicly throw one of his appointed successors under the bus. However, I have to believe the man responsible for the "you can make a pizza cheap enough that no one will eat it," would privately decry the nickel and dime "monetizing" direction that Mr Smisek has taken.
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I had the opportunity to meet Gordon several times around 2000 and he was always approachable and appreciative. Jeff shows up at central market here in Houston sometimes and he just looks disinterested and distant. While I dont think late 90s CO can be fairly compared to 2015 UA, the attitude of the leader does permeate through the organization.
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Originally Posted by luckypierre
(Post 24164143)
I have to believe the man responsible for the "you can make a pizza cheap enough that no one will eat it," would privately decry the nickel and dime "monetizing" direction that Mr Smisek has taken.
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Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 24164307)
That's the top Gordo-ism everybody remembers and quotes, and today's UA has been violating it since merger day. But Smisek would probably counter that it's a different market today and cheap, disgusting pizza won't repel starving people with no options.
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Originally Posted by MrAndy1369
(Post 24163051)
Interesting! How was legacy, pmUA such a mess that any airline it'd have merged with would not have the merger process go smoothly?
Also, curious in general - does pmCO remind any of you of (current) pmUS? I see some similarities - fortress hubs (PHL/PHX/CLT; EWR/CLE/IAH), a smaller footprint, mostly domestic traffic with limited, secondary international destinations (no Australia or Africa with both, for example), a more cheap, chintzy operation (pmCO offered better F meals, though, probably due to Chelsea being in-house), etc. Does anyone else see the similarities? |
How Does Gordon Bethune Think Jeff Smisek is Doing?
The only correct thing is that CAL needed the merger.
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Originally Posted by Sulley
(Post 24164520)
Nope. It's just you.
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Originally Posted by channa
(Post 24165133)
I think it's more than just him.
I even get first class as OAL. That's one big difference. Does US even have elites? :) |
Originally Posted by Sulley
(Post 24165198)
I commute on US weekly now -- it's a lot different than CO was before the merger.
I even get first class as OAL. That's one big difference. Does US even have elites? :) What's the route? Some routes have more demand than others. The difference between US and UA/CO is that US runs larger, mainline planes in many markets that UA/CO don't and/or don't even serve. When UA puts you on a CR2 LAX-PHX, for example, and US has multiple 321's running, that's a big difference. CLT-EWR is another example -- 5 x RJs on UA/CO (4 of which are single cabin coach only), US has 9 mainline. When that happens, you have enough F capacity to sell, accommodate Elites, and have some left over for IRROPS or nonrevs from time to time. |
Originally Posted by channa
(Post 24165329)
What's the route? Some routes have more demand than others.
The difference between US and UA/CO is that US runs larger, mainline planes in many markets that UA/CO don't and/or don't even serve. When UA puts you on a CR2 LAX-PHX, for example, and US has multiple 321's running, that's a big difference. CLT-EWR is another example -- 5 x RJs on UA/CO (4 of which are single cabin coach only), US has 9 mainline. When that happens, you have enough F capacity to sell, accommodate Elites, and have some left over for IRROPS or nonrevs from time to time. It's kind of nice -- and upgrades seem to be easy to get on the e-jets. I'm not complaining mind you :D |
The only way I can think of to answer the OP's question of what Bethune thinks is "Who cares?".
Its a totally different world now. I don't have an overly positive or negative view of Bethune as a leader. In the end, most of these guys do what's best for them, and if its good for the company, then all the better. That's all Smisek is doing. Maybe I should respect his opinion much more as everyone else here seems to whether they agree with him or not...but I just don't. |
Originally Posted by bocastephen
(Post 24160166)
Needless to say, if Gordon was still CEO, even if the merger took place (which it would not), our present day situation WRT operational reliability, product quality, workforce satisfaction and other metrics would be astronomically better than they are today.
Of course he is not going to take potshots at current management in public regardless of who hired them, but comparing Gordon's work resurrecting Continental vs Smisek's performance merging CO and UA, I will re-quote Lloyd Bentson's remark to Dan Quayle as "Mr Smisek, you're no Gordon Bethune". |
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