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North TATL 757 fuel stops / diversion delays [2015]

North TATL 757 fuel stops / diversion delays [2015]

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Old Jul 15, 17, 1:19 pm   -   Wikipost
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Last edit by: WineCountryUA
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Due to winter (most common Dec/Jan) weather/jetstream conditions for northern TATL flights, the 757-200's UA uses for the thin european routes need to make fuel stop / diversions. Typically at Bangor (BGR) / Goose Bay(YYR) / Gander (YQX) /St. John's (YYT), ....
The most commonly affected European routes are Barcelona (BCN), Berlin (TXL), Hamburg (HAM), Madrid (MAD), Oslo (OSL), Stockholm (ARN)

Interesting maps
Weather Model - North Atlantic Jet Stream Wind
North Atlantic Jet Stream Forecasts

Related / previous threads
Why does United put 757s on certain flights from EWR to europe

[757-200 diversions] CO starting hubs at Gander, Goose Bay, etc. [threads merged] pmCO

UA69 (ARN-EWR): Wrong plane, wrong fuel calculations, or bad weather?

2013 Westbound TATL 757 "Short Stops"

Consolidated "United 757 TATL Fuel Stop" Thread [Merged] 2012
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Old Jan 5, 15, 12:54 pm
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by Owenc View Post
Well that is a little different as the plane only has 30 or so people on board..
The PrivatAir 737 has 44 seats--close though

Originally Posted by WineCountryUA View Post
You also need to look at the wind effect.

The BFS delay seem to be more than just a jetstream issue but a problem at EWR as it was arriving. Based on past history that was a anomaly and probably should not be of general concern.

The regular fuel stop issue for UA is the Northern European cities
And ex-LIS, BCN and MAD (sometimes), however, UA63 was cancelled due to maintenance, so it didn't need to make a stop today.

I'm also wondering how they are picking the NATs for the 752s.

Last edited by fgirard; Jan 5, 15 at 12:57 pm Reason: wrong flight number
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Old Jan 5, 15, 1:06 pm
  #62  
 
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Originally Posted by milepig View Post
My guess is that UA figured out that on-time is good enough and they're slowing planes down to conserve fuel rather than going full throttle and arriving early.
My guess is that it is primarily due to slot control. Think landing queues and gate availability.


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Old Jan 5, 15, 1:14 pm
  #63  
 
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It seems that from UA65, they were taking a southern track via Santa Maria Oceanic and about 2/3 across the Atlantic and then switched destinations to BGR. This could be very well attributable to slot control as UA operations could send a message via CPDLC to get a re-clearance if they didn't have a place to put UA65 when it got to EWR.


Last edited by fgirard; Jan 5, 15 at 1:16 pm Reason: added more information
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Old Jan 5, 15, 1:26 pm
  #64  
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Crossing my fingers, I've not been on one of these diverted flights. If truly pre-planned, when do they inform the pax? At the gate before departure, upon takeoff during the normal pilot announcements, or later?
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Old Jan 5, 15, 1:36 pm
  #65  
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Originally Posted by milepig View Post
My guess is that UA figured out that on-time is good enough and they're slowing planes down to conserve fuel rather than going full throttle and arriving early.
Arriving early has its kinks too:

I do not ever remember arriving early like in FRA and docking at a gate. Typically it's waiting after leaving then runway and eventually parking at an off-tarmac positions with climbing stairs planeside and bus rides. Inconvenient & time-consuming exercises in and itself, often pulverising the early arrival advantage, and worse - resulting in delays reaching terminals/connecting flights.
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Old Jan 5, 15, 2:31 pm
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Owenc View Post
Is there even anything at goosebay lol?
Geese? (and I don't mean the stranded pax)
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Old Jan 5, 15, 2:33 pm
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Originally Posted by milepig View Post
Crossing my fingers, I've not been on one of these diverted flights. If truly pre-planned, when do they inform the pax? At the gate before departure, upon takeoff during the normal pilot announcements, or later?
When I flew TXL-EWR last month, it was in the plane, prior to take-off. Too late to make other arrangements then, of course.
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Old Jan 5, 15, 2:46 pm
  #68  
 
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Originally Posted by fgirard View Post
It seems that from UA65, they were taking a southern track via Santa Maria Oceanic and about 2/3 across the Atlantic and then switched destinations to BGR. This could be very well attributable to slot control as UA operations could send a message via CPDLC to get a re-clearance if they didn't have a place to put UA65 when it got to EWR.

Has nothing to do with slot control.

Longer Europe/US flights are "re-dispatched" at an enroute point. You are planned to have X amount of fuel at a given point based on the forecasted winds prior to takeoff.

Once you get to that designated point if you have more than the required gas you continue to EWR, if not you stop for gas. You only know how much gas you'll have when you get there, thus the enroute diversion, like your example.

I've been flying these Atlantic 756 routes exclusively for almost 6 years now. Diverted 4 times for fuel.
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Old Jan 5, 15, 2:51 pm
  #69  
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Originally Posted by clubord View Post
Has nothing to do with slot control.

Longer Europe/US flights are "re-dispatched" at an enroute point. You are planned to have X amount of fuel at a given point based on the forecasted winds prior to takeoff.

Once you get to that designated point if you have more than the required gas you continue to EWR, if not you stop for gas. You only know how much gas you'll have when you get there, thus the enroute diversion, like your example.

I've been flying these Atlantic 756 routes exclusively for almost 6 years now. Diverted 4 times for fuel.
Are you a United captain?
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Old Jan 5, 15, 3:00 pm
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Originally Posted by Owenc View Post
Are you a United captain?
Not in this plane, was a B737 CA prior to merger.

Currently First Officer on 757/767.
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Old Jan 5, 15, 3:34 pm
  #71  
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alright ok so you are the one with the experience then.
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Old Jan 5, 15, 4:26 pm
  #72  
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Originally Posted by WineCountryUA View Post
+1 and offseting the higher fuel usage of the ex-Europe flights.
Also - some airports have restrictions for landing times & slots for arrivals - so no point in being early... A few months ago our captain came on the PA and said we had to slow down coming in to FRA from ORD - and then were put in a holding pattern - as we were not allowed to land that early (this was the 5:45am arrival). We finally landed about 5:15am. I also believe that this is true for other airports in the UK as well...
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Old Jan 6, 15, 5:04 am
  #73  
 
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1/5 ua0055 cdg > ewr

Diverted to BGR, delayed departure, crew timed out. Still there this morning. Today's flight is scheduled to be diverted to BGR, too.
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Old Jan 6, 15, 8:59 am
  #74  
 
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Originally Posted by nwff View Post
Diverted to BGR, delayed departure, crew timed out. Still there this morning. Today's flight is scheduled to be diverted to BGR, too.
What's odd is that the flight that went out this morning (2074) didn't use the plane that came in from CDG yesterday (3130) but rather 3140, which was ferried up empty from IAD late last night. I wondered if the original plane had an mx problem, which delayed departure too far for the pilots (the web site shows the canceled continuation originally scheduled for 2AM this morning), but then they couldn't fix it and needed a new plane. Not particularly confidence inspiring...
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Old Jan 6, 15, 10:14 am
  #75  
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1/6 diversions that I found:

UA123 (LHR-IAD) to BGR (also 3 hours late out of LHR)
UA63 (MAD-EWR) to BGR (departed 45 mins late from MAD)
UA65 (LIS-EWR) to YQX (departed 2hr 20 mins late from LIS)

As mentioned above UA55 is also headed to BGR and left CDG around 50 mins late
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