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North TATL 757 fuel stops / diversion delays [2015]

North TATL 757 fuel stops / diversion delays [2015]

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Old Jul 15, 17, 1:19 pm   -   Wikipost
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Due to winter (most common Dec/Jan) weather/jetstream conditions for northern TATL flights, the 757-200's UA uses for the thin european routes need to make fuel stop / diversions. Typically at Bangor (BGR) / Goose Bay(YYR) / Gander (YQX) /St. John's (YYT), ....
The most commonly affected European routes are Barcelona (BCN), Berlin (TXL), Hamburg (HAM), Madrid (MAD), Oslo (OSL), Stockholm (ARN)

Interesting maps
Weather Model - North Atlantic Jet Stream Wind
North Atlantic Jet Stream Forecasts

Related / previous threads
Why does United put 757s on certain flights from EWR to europe

[757-200 diversions] CO starting hubs at Gander, Goose Bay, etc. [threads merged] pmCO

UA69 (ARN-EWR): Wrong plane, wrong fuel calculations, or bad weather?

2013 Westbound TATL 757 "Short Stops"

Consolidated "United 757 TATL Fuel Stop" Thread [Merged] 2012
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Old Jan 5, 15, 7:24 am
  #31  
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OK - so as a regular traveler on many of these routes for the past three years I believe I can safely say that the past few months have seen unusually strong headwinds. I fly from MAN / BCN / TXL monthly back to the states and I have never seen it this bad. I don't think it's UA to be honest - and I do think that the 757 is the right plane for secondary cities in western europe to the US (flame suit on).... It's just been a tough year weather wise for flights back to the US - and I have started booking away from the 757 routes to 767/777 for this winter (typically adding an intra EU connection via LHR/FRA/MUC) - but I wouldn't call it a UA issue.... The demand just isn't there in winter for a widebody to cities like BCN or MAN or TXL - and typically a 757 can make it - but it's been a tough weather year so far....
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Old Jan 5, 15, 8:21 am
  #32  
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I agree headwinds are certainly strong when routes from GB are diverting. The distance from every GB airport is WELL within the range.
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Old Jan 5, 15, 10:51 am
  #33  
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Hmmm. How come my flights to Europe aren't arriving early?
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Old Jan 5, 15, 11:01 am
  #34  
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Actually, on the point raised previously: does UA have some kind of permanent staff here, at least in the winter, given the frequency of this occurring? Are there ever instances where the plane has had to stop for much longer than normal and pax get deboarded overnight -- necessitating a UA CSR crew?
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Old Jan 5, 15, 11:06 am
  #35  
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Originally Posted by TA View Post
Actually, on the point raised previously: does UA have some kind of permanent staff here, at least in the winter, given the frequency of this occurring? Are there ever instances where the plane has had to stop for much longer than normal and pax get deboarded overnight -- necessitating a UA CSR crew?
IIRC there have been a few instances of passengers having to wait it out at Gander/Goose Bay and I guess they just keep them on the plane or in the secure area outside customs. There is no permanent or temporary UA staff at those airports as far as I know and probably no plans to add them in the current cost cutting mode of the airline.\


also, UA65 LIS-EWR is headed to BGR today (1/5/15) and it left LIS 3 hours late so it will probably be ~4.5-5 hours late into EWR.

Last edited by PV_Premier; Jan 5, 15 at 11:13 am
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Old Jan 5, 15, 11:34 am
  #36  
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Originally Posted by RNE View Post
Hmmm. How come my flights to Europe aren't arriving early?
Because UA knows you are on the flight, and they instruct the pilots to slow down, just to annoy you.
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Old Jan 5, 15, 11:34 am
  #37  
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This is so ridiculous it's comical.

UA Europe-US diversions YTD:

Code:
    date    | ident  | acft  | origin | destination | diverted | diversion 
------------+--------+-------+--------+-------------+----------+-----------
 2015-01-02 | UAL121 | B752  | LEBL   | KEWR        | diverted | KBGR
 2015-01-03 | UAL121 | B752  | LEBL   | KEWR        | diverted | KBGR
 2015-01-03 | UAL125 | B752  | EDDT   | KEWR        | diverted | CYYR
 2015-01-03 | UAL16  | B752  | EGLL   | KEWR        | diverted | KBGR
 2015-01-03 | UAL55  | B752  | LFPG   | KEWR        | diverted | KBGR
 2015-01-03 | UAL75  | B752  | EDDH   | KEWR        | diverted | KBGR
 2015-01-04 | UAL121 | B752  | LEBL   | KEWR        | diverted | CYQX
 2015-01-04 | UAL123 | B752  | EGLL   | KIAD        | diverted | CYQX
 2015-01-04 | UAL125 | B752  | EDDT   | KEWR        | diverted | CYQX
 2015-01-04 | UAL39  | B752  | ENGM   | KEWR        | diverted | CYYR
 2015-01-04 | UAL55  | B752  | LFPG   | KEWR        | diverted | CYQX
 2015-01-04 | UAL69  | B752  | ESSA   | KEWR        | diverted | CYQX
 2015-01-04 | UAL75  | B752  | EDDH   | KEWR        | diverted | CYYR
 2015-01-04 | UAL76  | B752  | EGAA   | KEWR        | diverted | KALB
 2015-01-05 | UAL121 | B752  | LEBL   | KEWR        | diverted | KBGR
 2015-01-05 | UAL125 | B752  | EDDT   | KEWR        | diverted | KBGR
 2015-01-05 | UAL55  | B752  | LFPG   | KEWR        | diverted | KBGR
 2015-01-05 | UAL69  | B752  | ESSA   | KEWR        | diverted | KBGR
 2015-01-05 | UAL75  | B752  | EDDH   | KEWR        | diverted | KBGR
I spy a pattern...
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Old Jan 5, 15, 11:35 am
  #38  
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Originally Posted by RNE View Post
Hmmm. How come my flights to Europe aren't arriving early?
Realize it's a tongue-in-cheek question you're asking, but probably because, with UA's poor operations, all those 752s go to another domestic city before coming back to EWR to do the TATL, and there's a good chance there are more delays during the day, backing up the departure time.

Originally Posted by mduell View Post
This is so ridiculous it's comical.
Oh wise master of the data any chance you could pull some 2014 data for us?

UA/AA/DL
- int'l diversion rate
- int'l cancellation rate

We all know DL is low...would be curious to officially prove that AA is lower than UA as well.

Would be interesting!

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jan 5, 15 at 11:43 am Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member - please use multi-quoting
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Old Jan 5, 15, 11:43 am
  #39  
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Is there even anything at goosebay lol?

Originally Posted by PV_Premier View Post
IIRC there have been a few instances of passengers having to wait it out at Gander/Goose Bay and I guess they just keep them on the plane or in the secure area outside customs. There is no permanent or temporary UA staff at those airports as far as I know and probably no plans to add them in the current cost cutting mode of the airline.\


also, UA65 LIS-EWR is headed to BGR today (1/5/15) and it left LIS 3 hours late so it will probably be ~4.5-5 hours late into EWR.
Isn't Lisbon within the range??

No diversion from Belfast today!!

Last edited by FlyinHawaiian; Jan 18, 15 at 9:44 am Reason: merge
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Old Jan 5, 15, 11:58 am
  #40  
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Originally Posted by UA-NYC View Post
Oh wise master of the data any chance you could pull some 2014 data for us?

UA/AA/DL
- int'l diversion rate
- int'l cancellation rate

We all know DL is low...would be curious to officially prove that AA is lower than UA as well.

Would be interesting!
Wouldn't this just be a direct reflection of each airline's fleet composition? Basically indicates that if you fly 757-200s to Europe, you will experience winter diversions -- not much surprise about that, right?
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Old Jan 5, 15, 11:58 am
  #41  
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Originally Posted by UA-NYC View Post
Realize it's a tongue-in-cheek question you're asking, but probably because, with UA's poor operations, all those 752s go to another domestic city before coming back to EWR to do the TATL, and there's a good chance there are more delays during the day, backing up the departure time.
I didn't read it as tongue-in-cheek at all. The question wasn't about departure delays, but rather why strong head winds when traveling West don't equate to strong tail winds going the other direction and reducing the flight time.

My guess is that UA figured out that on-time is good enough and they're slowing planes down to conserve fuel rather than going full throttle and arriving early.
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Old Jan 5, 15, 12:05 pm
  #42  
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Originally Posted by milepig View Post
... My guess is that UA figured out that on-time is good enough and they're slowing planes down to conserve fuel rather than going full throttle and arriving early.
+1 and offseting the higher fuel usage of the ex-Europe flights.
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Old Jan 5, 15, 12:06 pm
  #43  
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Originally Posted by TA View Post
Wouldn't this just be a direct reflection of each airline's fleet composition? Basically indicates that if you fly 757-200s to Europe, you will experience winter diversions -- not much surprise about that, right?
Well, there's flying a few of them to Europe (as AA does) and putting them on every route possible (major in addition to minor markets) and at unsustainable distances...like UA does.

More broadly though, there seem to be at least 3-4 UA int'l cancellations daily now, touching on all aircrafts (47s/67s/77s/87s too). We just don't seem to hear that much about them on OALs (I'm an avid reader of the AA forum and there's really no equivalent to this thread). So I'm curious to see if the data backs that up.

Remember...the operations were supposed to be "fixed"...two years ago now.
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Old Jan 5, 15, 12:12 pm
  #44  
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Originally Posted by UA-NYC View Post
Remember...the operations were supposed to be "fixed"...two years ago now.
They are fixed, didn't you hear? That's why UA drastically reduced its compensation schedule
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Old Jan 5, 15, 12:16 pm
  #45  
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Originally Posted by milepig View Post
I didn't read it as tongue-in-cheek at all. The question wasn't about departure delays, but rather why strong head winds when traveling West don't equate to strong tail winds going the other direction and reducing the flight time.

My guess is that UA figured out that on-time is good enough and they're slowing planes down to conserve fuel rather than going full throttle and arriving early.
Not true. Flight times are 5 hours eastbound and 7 hours westbound, a significant difference.

They leave late at 11pm and the poster is right most of the time it is because of delays in Newark.. There are delays like every time.
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