Woofdog123

hopefully copa will credit all CM flights from onepass->m+ and offer a million mile-type permanent benefit as well. Copa certainly(?) isn't blind to the MM status some of their customers either have achieved or are working on. Like you, I am majority copa but losing CO/UA flights in this calculus isn't good news, however it is better than nothing (and you don't lose CM flight credits in your UA MM status, presumably).

Are there any industry precedents on this type of thing?

drvannostren

People didn't seem to believe me when I posted this question previously (I'm no genius and I'm sure others had posted it as well) but the earning rates on the partner airlines were WAY above most competitors.

I'm really bummed CM has dropped so quickly, I'm only surprised cuz it's CM. It was more than a partner.

That said, I guarantee you haven't seen the last of THESE. There's no way after March that a K class ANA fare TPAC will earn 100%, there's just no reason for it. UA has driven people away in droves with the revenue based system, now they need to bring them back by not having everyone opt to fly partners at 100% accrual. Some people said it was crazy to think they'd drop to 50% but this is the first one, I expect more. AP is the same thing, lowest ticket classes earn 50% the difference is UA has more buckets that earn 0% so we'll see if they opt to just include more tickets to that group, or better yet would be eliminate that group and lump in a bunch more at 50%. There's no reason a FRA-DME flight on LH should earn 0% in any fare class imo.

drvannostren

For me personally this isn't the end of the world, but I don't fly nearly as much as you guys either. This does cut into my convenience though. Previously YVR-IAH-PTY-MDE was a nice route for me, or now UA introducing the DEN-PTY going YVR-DEN-PTY-MDE would be ok (except that DEN-PTY flight is pretty damn long to not pay for E+ as I'm not status with UA yet).

What I need to see now is 1 of 2 things...maybe you guys can comment. I find the routes to northern SA a bit limited or pricey.

1) CM stays in *A and comes up with a half decent FF program (I don't think they have as many dedicated CM customers as some people think) and they earn 50% to UA and AP (as they already do on cheap fares) and I just live with it.

This one frightens me a bit based on someone else's post.

2) CM leaves *A, goes wherever (doesn't matter, as long as I live in Canada I'll be *A), but that leaves Canada/US woefully covered to SA in my opinion. Long Hauls from Toronto to deep south, 4-5 times a week to BOG, 3-5 Rouge a week to Lima then UA from IAH or the less frequent departures from EWR...I'm fine with the UA service and whatnot, but from the west coast it leaves us a bit in the lurch since there's nothing from LA/SFO. I didn't include AV in this comment because I find their fares outside of the country to often be prohibitively expensive (AC fares are going this way IMO, UA/CM were always better priced).

So what I'd like to see is either UA/AV fill in the gaps. Not sure the demand is there for UA to add a 3rd daily IAH-BOG, but maybe once a day to MDE? or CTG? I'd love to see an SFO-BOG from UA or LAX-BOG as they used to have. I know AV/TACA has plenty of stuff via SAL but it seems to me it's always first thing in the morning or the end of the night and after getting no miles/segments from an AV/TACA SAL-MDE (AV marketed, AV livery, TACA hub, "operated by LACSA on behalf of AVIANCA" what a mess) flight and not knowing why I'm hesitant to fly them again unless the awards charts are cleared up.

CM almost seemed to have too much service I thought but it was great to have options for getting direct to multiple cities in Colombia and if they leave that really hurts at least for my options and price/convenience.

OhioExile

Does anyone have more clarity on this? I am considering buying some COPA tickets in March and am trying to figure out what that means.

1. It appears that on March 1, there is a significant reduction in RDM, but PQM remains the same.
2. On July 1, COPA has its own program and a number of benefits (such as CPUs) come to an end.

Is that right?

Woofdog123

I haven't seen verification of 1 as far as PQM. 2 - if you fly copa frequently enough (criteria not yet public), you may retain status with them under the new program from the start once you enroll and do whatever is needed to calculate your status from M+. Otherwise, yes, CPU's end.

Kacee

As of March 1, 2015, RDM will be per the chart. Copa Partner Details. It's not clear what happens with PQM.

izzik

Someone needs to update the Wiki, as it currently reflects the RDM earning change eff July 1.

KenInEscazu

But what about CM ticketed flights? I'm guessing that the 125% PQM bonus will finally come to an end on Dec. 31. 2014, but I doubt seriously that CM will punish folks buying tickets directly from them for those fares.

I could be all wrong, however, as AV has a similar RDM earning structure. Will CM simply try to beat them with the convenience of PTY and their more reliable departure/arrival record? Or will they add additional RDM earning (at least for the first 18 month period) to try to lure some of the traffic that may be currently married to other carriers in the region?

Copa is a fine airline, and I like them a lot. If they can produce an attractive FF program, they will keep me for a variety of reasons. I'm guessing they will.

mherdeg

Wow, great find, I think you're right and this is the post-March-1 *A model. Still waiting to see what Delta says about AF (since UA is silent on LH).

HeadInTheClouds

I understand why this is happening, but it will cost Copa around a dozen C/D/Y/B flights of mine a year. And since there is no single natural place for these flights to go, they will likely simply get fractured amongst different alternatives - the full UA integration (MM accrual, upgrades, etc.) always drove me to try to book Copa.

Local contacts I know in Central America who were Copa flyers always seemed to love the fact that they were part of UA/MP, and I don't imagine they're going to be too pleased.

Too bad.

nerdbirdsjc

The referenced earnings are for CM ticketed flights from 3/1 -- CM flights ticketed through UA from 3/1 fall under revenue-based earnings.

nerdbirdsjc

The United-Copa relationship was simply not going to continue as-is indefinitely.

Remember, when Copa and Continental formed their initial alliance, Copa flew to maybe a half-dozen cities in all of North America, and had a much smaller footprint of LatAm destinations of interest to North American-based flyers. CO had a LatAm network focused on two hubs, which was useful but with far less potential than what United can and will do going forward.

Above all, information is power and destiny in the modern airline business. Under the current arrangement, Copa does not fully control its most valuable data -- an unsavory arrangement for a standalone airline. With UA and CM now competing more than ever before, it is nonsensical to allow United access over Copa's crown jewels.

AdamSouthFL

I agree. AV's LM requires fewer miles and fewer segments to reach elite status and fewer miles for rewards compared to Mileage Plus. CM can't even compete while using a FF program built with North Am traveler in mind. Panamanians and Latin Americans need to use UA for transocean travel... requiring a visa to connect in the US.

I wonder how many Panamanians even make elite status with MP. One year I was upgraded on 17/18 segments on CM with still empty seats in the J cabin.

I think we will see lower miles and segments required to reach an elite level, just like LM. 50% miles on lower fares just like LM.

Skyteam is a big possibility.
Maybe the whale LAN will gobble them up too. Lan Panama.
I hope they name the FF "Cabana."

PhilnLiz

I noticed in the fine print FAQ on the UA mileage card changes that Copa will have its own plan beginning July and so you will not get miles on a UA flight operated by Copa.

My flight troubles recently were due to a Mesa operated UA flight but that led me to wonder if it's going to be a big deal that you get no UA miles on a Copa operated flight? Are many UA flights operated by Mesa/Copa?

pmarrsouth

How do you know you will get 0 miles on a UA flight operated by Copa after July?