Darlox

I suppose we shall see... while I won't dispute that it SHOULD perform better, on paper, the timing of these flights still has them solidly stuck as O/D-only traffic both ways for HND, and Destination-only on the return for SFO. The JV may shore up the financials, but the underlying problems with the route will likely be no better and no worse than SEA.

Also, while they haven't announced a "seasonal" reduction yet, UA has already dropped HND off the holiday calendar. The new nonstop doesn't operate at all 11/19-11/21, 11/25-11/27, and similar gaps just before Xmas travel weeks. For a brand new highly-touted route, that won't even be a month old by that point, it's not a stunning vote of confidence in advance...

JimInOhio

This is the classic "Wall Street is really our #1 customer" syndrome. The problem is it's the flying customers that provide the revenue.

FlyerTom111

Agree. I think it makes sense to do your maintenance and training in the slow season but other airlines may see this as an opportunity and offer seats thereby costing you market share and loyalty and potentially customers when the busy season matters.

At the end of the day they need to provide the best product at the best price. Delta and AA and really WN, B6, and VX are running circles around UA at this point.

WineCountryUA

My statement drew no connection to FT or the status of FT members.
Your statement assumes HVF (non FT members) are unaware of / not impacted by the changes, IME, that is not true.

spin88

I want to emphasize this point. United's management seems to think its actions only impact (and are heard by) those it views as its targets (those paying 8-12 c/mi, and the "over-entitled elites") but its not like we have a number stamped on our foreheads and only those with a 4 stamped there hear the discordant note.

When Jeff took over, in numerous ways he tried to cut the benefits overall to elites, while skewing the smaller pie to the top spenders. (upgrade clearance by fare category, and now GS and reward miles being given by spending).

But the top spending travelers (and I say this as one) don't make a cost benefit analysis with each issue, they react to changes they don't like, and the overall feel of the experience. That they get more miles is lost in the crappy food/coffee, agent who would not help them. As an example, my upgrades nearly always cleared as a GS (In Jeff's view, I should love Jeff for this) but before it cleared (often at the gate) I would get the annoying "buy an upgrade now, for $$" and upsell offers non-stop. An airline that makes my experience be part of a reverse auction, is not one I want to fly. I've talked to other GS/1Ks and they found the entire thing equally annoying. My thought process is/was "I'm spending $50-60K/year on United, and United will happily stick me in the back in a middle seat if they can sell an $69 upgrade to the guy who paid 1/3 what I paid for my ticket." The message is NOT "United's got my back."

As I've said many times, flying United, and sitting up front, in probably 50-100 conversations, with two notable exception, I've not found anyone who was happy with the service/benefits they were/are getting from United compared to pre-merger. Many of these are HVFers. They might not know what a FT regular knows, but they knew enough to know they did not like what they were getting from United. And now flying DL/AS/VX from SFO, my seatmate is most often ex-UA, and they heard the negative message from Jeff and Co. loud and clear.

In the old (PM) United, staff would look at your status, see 1K, and know that they were authorized to fix the problem. Currently, not so much, the training is to follow procedures to the letter, and that mindset overwhelms (IME) the ability to creatively fix issues for the HVFer.

p.s. and I might add that some, if not many, of the regular UAL defenders here, are lower "value" (to UAL anyway) fliers, and have posted that they are paying 10-12 c/mi to fly UAL. So its also not correct to equate unhappiness with lower spending.

p.s.s. and the noteworthy thing to me is that when 1K/GS folks have complained to me, those who were pmCO blame "the folks in Chicago who took over CO" and the pmUA folks blame "the folks in Houston who took over UA" The details of what has happened may be fuzzy, but the outcome is not.

UA-NYC

Some have savvily asserted that schedule/network trumps all, and product/service don't matter in the big picture.

That's clearly been proven (vis-a-vis' UA's relative performance the past couple years) to be a profoundly short-sighted viewpoint :-:

CALMSP

but, this is typical on a lot of flights in the network for international.

Darlox

Absolutely true. But you don't see SFO-NRT (or DL's SEA-NRT) being treated similarly. The fact that HND already made the reduction roster reveals at least a little about their predictions on its off-peak prospects.

Anyhow, my root point in ALL of this, when I replied, was simply that DL's seasonal reduction in SEA-HND reflects upon neither the success or sustainability of their growing SEA hub, nor is it any indicator of UA's ultimate success on the SFO-HND route or its likelihood as a year-round offering!

spin88

I understand that xxx-HND is a route that is there for business traffic almost exlusively (the bad fight times are made up for by not needing a two hour (and at least $100 RT) train ride into Tokyo). As noted above there are few connecting options (given the flight time) unlike at NRT. What happens at NRT is that when the business fliers disappear, the flights are still profitable as they are full with family/leisure traffic, often at higher fares due to demand. But I expect that United was seeing/expecting the plane to be mostly empty over those periods and decided to cancel it, perhaps adding it onto something like a Hawaii route. I question that with a new route that UAL is trying to get established, but I don't read too much into it on how well SFO-HND will do.

I also think the DL flight ex-SEA is impacted more by the bad times than SFO as SFO is about 2x the O/D market. The smaller size of the DL A/C (a 763 I think) helps some, but I expect DL was also picking up a lot of Japanese tourist traffic, which will be gone in the winter, hence the suspension.

jasondc

has been made DOZENS of times in multiple threads and is really not relevant to the topic of this thread. It should be in one of the dozens of threads talking about the degradation of the Mileage Plus program. So I don't see why this comment or any of these related comments are in a thread about seasonal reductions of service. Which, by the way, Delta has done more of for longer than any other US airline. This winter they are expanding a bit, but it's off a lower base. UA still is behind DL in this trend of seasonalizing the schedule.

kevanyalowitz

Looks like AS agrees with me on this one. Its launching SEA-IAD-SEA in March: http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/m...dulles-in.html

flyallegheny

On a different sub-topic...

Currently, there's no evening BWI-EWR flight, which is a bummer for those of us who work in BWI. It returns on Aug 18 as UA 4777 dep 7:05p. Any ideas why there's no evening flight in July?

entropy

there is Amtrak instead,with much more reliable service!

WineCountryUA

Since we are well past 2015Q1 and other threads on schedule changes exist, so time to close this one out. Thanks all for your input.

WineCountryUA
UA coModerator