UA Customer issues "Townhall Discussion" - UAInsider please feel free to send to UA
Sep 5, 2014, 7:22 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Houston / Philadelphia
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 276
UA Customer issues "Townhall Discussion" - UAInsider please feel free to send to UA
Mods, in case I violated any rules below please feel free to let me know.
Hi UA FT forum,
I would like to start a thread on what can make UA a better company/airline in a townhall manner. Yes there are threads on this topic this but it is full of nonesense such as the CEO sucks I dont like the chicken sucks and UA did this or that again. This is all basic complaining towards one specific item and not addressing the underlying issue. I believe an important step towards making a company better is the company needs to know customer issues. Corporate issues (CEO election etc.) cannot be influenced by customers but customer experiences can be addressed by the company.
I had a pleasant message exchange with UAInsider recently and thought maybe we could have a thread that UAInsider can actually take to UA. I think it would be beneficial because the majority of folks posting here fly a great deal and would be able to provide useful insight into what can lower/raise their overall UA experience.
Basically posts which actually highlight issues that could benefit the company would be nice. Lets not go too much into back and forth of peoples opinions and write it with the mindset of directly telling this to UA sch as in a townhall manner.
For example:
"pmCO/pmUA used to do xxxxxxxxx which made the flying experience better and the reason was xxxxxxxxx, but UA does not do it now"
or
"it would be convenient if check in agents could answer questions about upgrades. I understand they are beginning to be outsourced as oppossed to traditional UA employees but they represent UA to a pax and should be as informed as any UA agent"
or
"Because of IMO "non-competitive pricing" I flew DL from IAH-CVG-PHL last week instead of UA IAH-PHL as the ticket price was ~$250 cheaper. Yes I had to make a connection as oppossed to UA's direct flight but as I paid for the ticket myself, the 1 connection was worth it this time."
Do not post single experience opinions such as:
"Last week an agent was rude to me" but instead address the overall issue maybe like "CS across the board needs to be addressed. Even if a pax request is going to be denied, at least talk to the pax nicely and professionally. UA needs to realize the one rude agent a pax speaks to could leave a bitter taste in the pax's mind longer than the 10 fantastic agents they spoke with before"
UAInsider, if you could/would take this to UA to highlight overall issues please let us know. If you are able to reply to an issue to explain the company's stance that would be great also. FT'ers, don't kill the messenger aka UAInsider
If someone who actually knows the reason to answer a post please reply at will. Remember, try to keep away from opinions and reply with facts.
Shall we give it a go?
A few of my comments are listed in the examples so feel free to continue below.
Hi UA FT forum,
I would like to start a thread on what can make UA a better company/airline in a townhall manner. Yes there are threads on this topic this but it is full of nonesense such as the CEO sucks I dont like the chicken sucks and UA did this or that again. This is all basic complaining towards one specific item and not addressing the underlying issue. I believe an important step towards making a company better is the company needs to know customer issues. Corporate issues (CEO election etc.) cannot be influenced by customers but customer experiences can be addressed by the company.
I had a pleasant message exchange with UAInsider recently and thought maybe we could have a thread that UAInsider can actually take to UA. I think it would be beneficial because the majority of folks posting here fly a great deal and would be able to provide useful insight into what can lower/raise their overall UA experience.
Basically posts which actually highlight issues that could benefit the company would be nice. Lets not go too much into back and forth of peoples opinions and write it with the mindset of directly telling this to UA sch as in a townhall manner.
For example:
"pmCO/pmUA used to do xxxxxxxxx which made the flying experience better and the reason was xxxxxxxxx, but UA does not do it now"
or
"it would be convenient if check in agents could answer questions about upgrades. I understand they are beginning to be outsourced as oppossed to traditional UA employees but they represent UA to a pax and should be as informed as any UA agent"
or
"Because of IMO "non-competitive pricing" I flew DL from IAH-CVG-PHL last week instead of UA IAH-PHL as the ticket price was ~$250 cheaper. Yes I had to make a connection as oppossed to UA's direct flight but as I paid for the ticket myself, the 1 connection was worth it this time."
Do not post single experience opinions such as:
"Last week an agent was rude to me" but instead address the overall issue maybe like "CS across the board needs to be addressed. Even if a pax request is going to be denied, at least talk to the pax nicely and professionally. UA needs to realize the one rude agent a pax speaks to could leave a bitter taste in the pax's mind longer than the 10 fantastic agents they spoke with before"
UAInsider, if you could/would take this to UA to highlight overall issues please let us know. If you are able to reply to an issue to explain the company's stance that would be great also. FT'ers, don't kill the messenger aka UAInsider
If someone who actually knows the reason to answer a post please reply at will. Remember, try to keep away from opinions and reply with facts.
Shall we give it a go?
A few of my comments are listed in the examples so feel free to continue below.
Sep 5, 2014, 8:14 am
#2
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: UA Gold MM, HHonors Gold, Hertz Five Star Gold, Marriott Gold, Avis First
Posts: 462
Here is one: I have been looking at pricing for DEN-MIL for 10/12 and Delta is under $900 while UA is over $2,000. This looks like a big difference without any reason.
Sep 5, 2014, 8:35 am
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,067
If they care, they already have the data and resources to do this. Much of what you said they can figure out (they can watch fares, for example, and I'd be very surprised if they did not).
AA reaches out to people when their flying patterns change materially downward. AA also calls EXPs to see how they're doing -- if something's of concern, ideally it would come out at that point and can possibly be addressed. UA could do the same, they know whose flying patterns have changed.
They have phone call data and can review any phone call that took > x minutes. They have customer sat data and can reach out to anyone who scored them as < 3 on the survey. They have your MP number when you call, and they can review the issue for anyone who called more than once in an hour. And so on.
A good organization looks at their data for issues. Customers shouldn't have to initiate this.
AA reaches out to people when their flying patterns change materially downward. AA also calls EXPs to see how they're doing -- if something's of concern, ideally it would come out at that point and can possibly be addressed. UA could do the same, they know whose flying patterns have changed.
They have phone call data and can review any phone call that took > x minutes. They have customer sat data and can reach out to anyone who scored them as < 3 on the survey. They have your MP number when you call, and they can review the issue for anyone who called more than once in an hour. And so on.
A good organization looks at their data for issues. Customers shouldn't have to initiate this.
Sep 5, 2014, 8:44 am
#4
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 6km East of EPAYE
Programs: UA Silver, AA Platinum, AS & DL GM Marriott TE, Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,582
UA is not blind to our concerns, they listen....they just have a greater obligation to their shareholders than they do to us; so we gather here and crank about it.
Good luck herding cats.
Sep 5, 2014, 8:48 am
#5
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 314
If they care, they already have the data and resources to do this. Much of what you said they can figure out (they can watch fares, for example, and I'd be very surprised if they did not).
AA reaches out to people when their flying patterns change materially downward. AA also calls EXPs to see how they're doing -- if something's of concern, ideally it would come out at that point and can possibly be addressed. UA could do the same, they know whose flying patterns have changed.
They have phone call data and can review any phone call that took > x minutes. They have customer sat data and can reach out to anyone who scored them as < 3 on the survey. They have your MP number when you call, and they can review the issue for anyone who called more than once in an hour. And so on.
A good organization looks at their data for issues. Customers shouldn't have to initiate this.
AA reaches out to people when their flying patterns change materially downward. AA also calls EXPs to see how they're doing -- if something's of concern, ideally it would come out at that point and can possibly be addressed. UA could do the same, they know whose flying patterns have changed.
They have phone call data and can review any phone call that took > x minutes. They have customer sat data and can reach out to anyone who scored them as < 3 on the survey. They have your MP number when you call, and they can review the issue for anyone who called more than once in an hour. And so on.
A good organization looks at their data for issues. Customers shouldn't have to initiate this.
I think dialog of this nature is only useful when a company and its leadership are open to outside ideas and are willing to change.
Sep 5, 2014, 9:15 am
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Northern Calif./Eastern Ida.
Programs: Amethyst Premier Plutonium Medallion
Posts: 20,628
i applaud your effort and energy, but it will not be successful. the problems you are alluding to are so endemic to the overall organization right now that nothing short of a major cultural and management shake down is going to have a significant impact. your best course of action is to either learn to live with the issues in play, or take your business to another airline with fewer issues (as many of us have already done).
Sep 5, 2014, 9:32 am
#7
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: sometimes SIN, sometimes JFK/LGA
Programs: UA 1K, 1.6MM bis
Posts: 767
To be fair to the OP, he/she's got a point. It does make sense to put our concerns and grievances in black and white, expressed factually, without rancor and expect a civil reply in return. Consider the sorts of posts that many of us write; the combination of complaining with editorializing, with a good dose of cynicism - this sort of commentary if targeted to most of us, we wouldn't want to respond to either. In any case, given the way we criticize UA (and I don't believe I'm an apologist), we'd be hypocrites if we expect them to be perfect mind readers of the sorts of posts many of us write on these threads.
Call it a last ditch good faith attempt on our part as passengers/customers to offer our straight criticisms and comments to UA management, deserved or not. They might just tell us to take a hike or refuse to respond, but if so it will be on them, not us.
Call it a last ditch good faith attempt on our part as passengers/customers to offer our straight criticisms and comments to UA management, deserved or not. They might just tell us to take a hike or refuse to respond, but if so it will be on them, not us.
Sep 5, 2014, 9:46 am
#8
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,825
There was a brief period of cogency (starting with post 2158) where people provided well thought out and rational perspectives on what was disappointing to them about UA, and why an alternative airline had become more attractive to them.
I found it very insightful, hopefully UA Insider forwarded all the comments to the correct individuals within UA.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ng-ua-144.html
For example:
spin88 even played along!
I found it very insightful, hopefully UA Insider forwarded all the comments to the correct individuals within UA.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ng-ua-144.html
For example:
1) What did you like most about fkaUA or fkaCO?
fkaUA
The value of RDMs.
Upgrades with the E500 system worked well. UDU worked well.
2) What changes have had the greatest negative impact on you?
CPU upgrade rate is terrible
RPUs and GPUs are not automatically returned when they don't clear
Fewer RPUs
Introduction of plat
Devaluation of RDMs
Introduction of P and J fare class raised the price of upgradeable fare
Much harder to upgrade from business class to first class on LH
3) What remains about the current UA that makes it hard for you to leave?
Fortress station in COS.
4) What airlines are you considering switching to? Or kayaking?
AA for long haul. AA for east bound short haul. Alaska (crediting to AA) for west bound short haul. WN for short haul in the summer ex-DEN.
5) What benefits / improvements do you expect on your new airline?
Use SWUs on any fare. More value for RDMs.
6) What aspects of the new airline make it hard for you to switch to them?
Not enough flights to my home station.
fkaUA
The value of RDMs.
Upgrades with the E500 system worked well. UDU worked well.
2) What changes have had the greatest negative impact on you?
CPU upgrade rate is terrible
RPUs and GPUs are not automatically returned when they don't clear
Fewer RPUs
Introduction of plat
Devaluation of RDMs
Introduction of P and J fare class raised the price of upgradeable fare
Much harder to upgrade from business class to first class on LH
3) What remains about the current UA that makes it hard for you to leave?
Fortress station in COS.
4) What airlines are you considering switching to? Or kayaking?
AA for long haul. AA for east bound short haul. Alaska (crediting to AA) for west bound short haul. WN for short haul in the summer ex-DEN.
5) What benefits / improvements do you expect on your new airline?
Use SWUs on any fare. More value for RDMs.
6) What aspects of the new airline make it hard for you to switch to them?
Not enough flights to my home station.
1) What did you like most about fkaUA or fkaCO?
Upgrades - my % of UDUs was in the mid 90s before the merger. This even included hub-hub flights on A319s during peak times
Service - 1K Desk and CSRs were empowered to do whatever it would take to help the customer. None of the ridiculous "I have to call the helpdesk for approval, etc"
RCCs - the product was improving, even if we had to pay for the sandwiches, etc, they were selling. I would gladly buy real food if they sold it-- not sure why they think carrots, cookies, and pretzels are what we should get for $400+ a year
The livery
2) What changes have had the greatest negative impact on you?
SHARES - it's a cluster of a res system and one that COdbaUA should have invested more time in training staff on how to use.. Better yet, they should have had the GUI ready to go on Day 1, not months and months afterwards.
More RJs - especially the crappy Q400s
Soft product has taken a nose dive
ToDs & other shenanigans - u/g percentage is in the mid 40s these days. Almost requires a CR1 just to clear MCI-DEN
"1K Desk" - agents definitely aren't as good as the ones that we had when the real 1K Desk was ORD/DTW/HNL.
Gutting MileagePlus
The livery
3) What remains about the current UA that makes it hard for you to leave?
Star Alliance
Only airline with n/s from MCI-DEN (not going to touch F9/WN with a 200' pole)
4) What airlines are you considering switching to? Or kayaking?
AA - I've been EXP since the oneworld MegaDO challenge in 2011. Got a glimpse at what the old UA used to be like, but with improved product/cs. Will requal again this year on BIS -- I have never missed an upgrade since becoming EXP in 2011! 100% UDU/SWU, even on JFK-SFO/LAX, LAX-DFW, LAX-ORD, and the list goes on. We don't have the crap ToDs and non-transparent u/g system to deal with.
5) What benefits / improvements do you expect on your new airline?
As mentioned above, upgrades are much better on AA. Can't beat 100%
Hard/soft product is great and getting better
I've had wifi on all of my domestic flights in 2013 (except for the intl 763s and one 757)
CS agents who are empowered to help. Had two tix- MCI-DFW-DCA-JFK & JFK-LAX-HNL this past Feb. Due to a huge winter storm, I called and got rebooked MCI-DFW-LAX-HNL, kept my original upgrades, and didn't have to pay a dime despite separate tickets. AAgents gladly patched me up and got me to HNL with no delay - ORC later approved
6) What aspects of the new airline make it hard for you to switch to them?
I will really miss Star Alliance - Needed to go DEN-LHR last year for my trip to Oz. BA had C space but wanted $800 fees-- LH F was available through FRA and only cost me $2.50 (yes, that is really $2.50)
Upgrades - my % of UDUs was in the mid 90s before the merger. This even included hub-hub flights on A319s during peak times
Service - 1K Desk and CSRs were empowered to do whatever it would take to help the customer. None of the ridiculous "I have to call the helpdesk for approval, etc"
RCCs - the product was improving, even if we had to pay for the sandwiches, etc, they were selling. I would gladly buy real food if they sold it-- not sure why they think carrots, cookies, and pretzels are what we should get for $400+ a year
The livery
2) What changes have had the greatest negative impact on you?
SHARES - it's a cluster of a res system and one that COdbaUA should have invested more time in training staff on how to use.. Better yet, they should have had the GUI ready to go on Day 1, not months and months afterwards.
More RJs - especially the crappy Q400s
Soft product has taken a nose dive
ToDs & other shenanigans - u/g percentage is in the mid 40s these days. Almost requires a CR1 just to clear MCI-DEN
"1K Desk" - agents definitely aren't as good as the ones that we had when the real 1K Desk was ORD/DTW/HNL.
Gutting MileagePlus
The livery
3) What remains about the current UA that makes it hard for you to leave?
Star Alliance
Only airline with n/s from MCI-DEN (not going to touch F9/WN with a 200' pole)
4) What airlines are you considering switching to? Or kayaking?
AA - I've been EXP since the oneworld MegaDO challenge in 2011. Got a glimpse at what the old UA used to be like, but with improved product/cs. Will requal again this year on BIS -- I have never missed an upgrade since becoming EXP in 2011! 100% UDU/SWU, even on JFK-SFO/LAX, LAX-DFW, LAX-ORD, and the list goes on. We don't have the crap ToDs and non-transparent u/g system to deal with.
5) What benefits / improvements do you expect on your new airline?
As mentioned above, upgrades are much better on AA. Can't beat 100%
Hard/soft product is great and getting better
I've had wifi on all of my domestic flights in 2013 (except for the intl 763s and one 757)
CS agents who are empowered to help. Had two tix- MCI-DFW-DCA-JFK & JFK-LAX-HNL this past Feb. Due to a huge winter storm, I called and got rebooked MCI-DFW-LAX-HNL, kept my original upgrades, and didn't have to pay a dime despite separate tickets. AAgents gladly patched me up and got me to HNL with no delay - ORC later approved
6) What aspects of the new airline make it hard for you to switch to them?
I will really miss Star Alliance - Needed to go DEN-LHR last year for my trip to Oz. BA had C space but wanted $800 fees-- LH F was available through FRA and only cost me $2.50 (yes, that is really $2.50)
Originally Posted by PV_Premier
Thought I would circle back and update on how I've made good on my threat.
so far I have purchased four tickets for 2014 and two additional one-ways for 2013 since my "i'm leaving" post.
for 2013, one of my one ways went to UA (though considered booking on B6 for something new). $120 for FLL-EWR. the DL one way is GSO-RSW for $225. considered F for $355 but decided upgrades might be in play and if not, it's a short trip.
for 2014 three of the four tickets have gone to DL, one to UA. the combined spend on the DL tickets was about $3000 including one paid C, while the spend on the UA ticket was $368 (round trip Wideroe special to DUB). the three tickets i hold on UA for 2014 total to $763 and 26,500 EQMs. not meeting Jeffy Jeff's spend goal for me, that is for sure.
status match from 1K to Alaska MVP Gold came through last week.
to humor LarkSFO and the masses:
1) What did you like most about fkaUA or fkaCO?
i was exUA. liked:
*Treatment I received as a customer. Even as a Premier Exec at a fairly sizable station (PHL) the agents knew me. Emails and phone inquiries were addressed in timely manner. I was thanked for my business.
*Reasonably reliable upgrades, meaning if I booked a given flight I had a pretty good idea where I'd be sitting. If I flew the 8am departure from PHL-ORD, I was usually up front (~90% success). 6am, I knew I would not make the cut.
*If I was on a route of >900 miles, I was on mainline in almost all cases.
2) What changes have had the greatest negative impact on you?
*Mileage devaluation
*SHARES strangle hold on agents
*Schedule changes
*Expert flyer nonsense
*Regional jet mania
*Schedule reductions
*Jeff Smisek in general
3) What remains about the current UA that makes it hard for you to leave?
*GPUs and RPUs and having the knowledge of how to leverage them coupled with an admittedly strong international route network
*Old habits are hard to break
*SHARES and Amadeus errors in my favor recently
*being able to deface a picture of Jeff Smisek in the Hemi magazine whilst flying on his planes
4) What airlines are you considering switching to? Or kayaking?
*I have status matched to AS, will fly mostly DL and some AA. Will continue to fly UA when the price is right, no desire to aspire for status. If it happens, it happens, but my status efforts will be directed toward AS. I predict I will end 2014 as an AS MVP Gold or 75k, and UA Silver.
5) What benefits / improvements do you expect on your new airline?
*I just know it can't really be any worse and that's good enough for me right now.
6) What aspects of the new airline make it hard for you to switch to them?
*AS route network sucks but the ability to accrue miles into one account and get some modest benefits from three airlines currently is hard to say no to
so far I have purchased four tickets for 2014 and two additional one-ways for 2013 since my "i'm leaving" post.
for 2013, one of my one ways went to UA (though considered booking on B6 for something new). $120 for FLL-EWR. the DL one way is GSO-RSW for $225. considered F for $355 but decided upgrades might be in play and if not, it's a short trip.
for 2014 three of the four tickets have gone to DL, one to UA. the combined spend on the DL tickets was about $3000 including one paid C, while the spend on the UA ticket was $368 (round trip Wideroe special to DUB). the three tickets i hold on UA for 2014 total to $763 and 26,500 EQMs. not meeting Jeffy Jeff's spend goal for me, that is for sure.
status match from 1K to Alaska MVP Gold came through last week.
to humor LarkSFO and the masses:
1) What did you like most about fkaUA or fkaCO?
i was exUA. liked:
*Treatment I received as a customer. Even as a Premier Exec at a fairly sizable station (PHL) the agents knew me. Emails and phone inquiries were addressed in timely manner. I was thanked for my business.
*Reasonably reliable upgrades, meaning if I booked a given flight I had a pretty good idea where I'd be sitting. If I flew the 8am departure from PHL-ORD, I was usually up front (~90% success). 6am, I knew I would not make the cut.
*If I was on a route of >900 miles, I was on mainline in almost all cases.
2) What changes have had the greatest negative impact on you?
*Mileage devaluation
*SHARES strangle hold on agents
*Schedule changes
*Expert flyer nonsense
*Regional jet mania
*Schedule reductions
*Jeff Smisek in general
3) What remains about the current UA that makes it hard for you to leave?
*GPUs and RPUs and having the knowledge of how to leverage them coupled with an admittedly strong international route network
*Old habits are hard to break
*SHARES and Amadeus errors in my favor recently
*being able to deface a picture of Jeff Smisek in the Hemi magazine whilst flying on his planes
4) What airlines are you considering switching to? Or kayaking?
*I have status matched to AS, will fly mostly DL and some AA. Will continue to fly UA when the price is right, no desire to aspire for status. If it happens, it happens, but my status efforts will be directed toward AS. I predict I will end 2014 as an AS MVP Gold or 75k, and UA Silver.
5) What benefits / improvements do you expect on your new airline?
*I just know it can't really be any worse and that's good enough for me right now.
6) What aspects of the new airline make it hard for you to switch to them?
*AS route network sucks but the ability to accrue miles into one account and get some modest benefits from three airlines currently is hard to say no to
Good template...
1) What did you like most about fkaUA or fkaCO?
* Former CO elite...1k initially with UA most years PLT/High GLD. was very happy
* Mainline where I tend to fly (mostly).
* Relatively easy upgrades on CO
* With UA have had great luck with 3-cabin p.s. upgrades (with miles)
* UA w/ *A is a good network for my int'l flights
* Historically good upgrade rate
* Newark Terminal C much better vs. old AA & DL @ JFK
2) What changes have had the greatest negative impact on you?
* Perception of fewer upgrades (including availability of M/B-ups)
* Perception of less friendly service, dirtier planes, worse food etc.
* Perception of more RJ coming
* Concern that every change over the past ~2 years seems to have weakened the FF program. Uncertainty about what is next down the pike.
3) What remains about the current UA that makes it hard for you to leave?
* Comfort and familiarity
* Have had excellent on time performance for me (except for one key route which seems to be always delayed)
* Prefer getting to/from Newark vs. JFK (Manhattan based)
* Domestic F better than MD-80 F
* Like the BF seat.
* E+ is helpful when can't upgrade, buy-up to 1st
* Lounge access
4) What airlines are you considering switching to? Or kayaking?
* Started diversifying my spend in 2013 to UA plus Kayak...based on planned travel should still make PLT but another ~35-40k mixed on B6, DL, AA or their alliances.
* Would have said split AA and UA but with new Delta push in NYC including the new terminal, I may give it a shot.
* Likely to target GLD on UA and split AA/DL to see if they're better
5) What benefits / improvements do you expect on your new airline?
* Add LGA as possibility for shorter flights
* Best Case: Friendlier, cleaner, more upgrades (sure...),
* Worst Case: Diversifying to two airlines (or Kayak) should provide a better mix of price/schedules leading to saved time and $
* As gaining seniority am eligible for more paid F, which means that most of the FF benefits come with the ticket - increasingly just want a nice point A to point B trip.
6) What aspects of the new airline make it hard for you to switch to them?
* Uncertainty
* No legacy (DL/AA/UA) is all that special with regards to...well...anything
* Switching costs of building elite for security line, early board, etc. when not in paid F
* Have mixed emotions of AA from 6-7 years ago before transitioning to UA
1) What did you like most about fkaUA or fkaCO?
* Former CO elite...1k initially with UA most years PLT/High GLD. was very happy
* Mainline where I tend to fly (mostly).
* Relatively easy upgrades on CO
* With UA have had great luck with 3-cabin p.s. upgrades (with miles)
* UA w/ *A is a good network for my int'l flights
* Historically good upgrade rate
* Newark Terminal C much better vs. old AA & DL @ JFK
2) What changes have had the greatest negative impact on you?
* Perception of fewer upgrades (including availability of M/B-ups)
* Perception of less friendly service, dirtier planes, worse food etc.
* Perception of more RJ coming
* Concern that every change over the past ~2 years seems to have weakened the FF program. Uncertainty about what is next down the pike.
3) What remains about the current UA that makes it hard for you to leave?
* Comfort and familiarity
* Have had excellent on time performance for me (except for one key route which seems to be always delayed)
* Prefer getting to/from Newark vs. JFK (Manhattan based)
* Domestic F better than MD-80 F
* Like the BF seat.
* E+ is helpful when can't upgrade, buy-up to 1st
* Lounge access
4) What airlines are you considering switching to? Or kayaking?
* Started diversifying my spend in 2013 to UA plus Kayak...based on planned travel should still make PLT but another ~35-40k mixed on B6, DL, AA or their alliances.
* Would have said split AA and UA but with new Delta push in NYC including the new terminal, I may give it a shot.
* Likely to target GLD on UA and split AA/DL to see if they're better
5) What benefits / improvements do you expect on your new airline?
* Add LGA as possibility for shorter flights
* Best Case: Friendlier, cleaner, more upgrades (sure...),
* Worst Case: Diversifying to two airlines (or Kayak) should provide a better mix of price/schedules leading to saved time and $
* As gaining seniority am eligible for more paid F, which means that most of the FF benefits come with the ticket - increasingly just want a nice point A to point B trip.
6) What aspects of the new airline make it hard for you to switch to them?
* Uncertainty
* No legacy (DL/AA/UA) is all that special with regards to...well...anything
* Switching costs of building elite for security line, early board, etc. when not in paid F
* Have mixed emotions of AA from 6-7 years ago before transitioning to UA
Lark, UAL killed its internal feedback board, and went to a survey of customers designed to prevent bad scores, what makes you think that they are interested in your "market research"
This said, there are plenty of answers to your question on this board (which you spend far more time on than most of us), but I can summarize them for you:
(1) Most people like the App showing where your (delayed) airplane is coming from, and how the turn time is not gonna happen, and where you sit on the upgrade list so you can speculate how much people are paying for their TODs.
(2) TOD/lack of upgrades, poor service and soft product, bad reliability, lack of responsiveness in IRROPs, no WiFi top the list.
(3) "I am stuck in a fortress hub"/"I don't want to go to SkyPesos and AA does not serve the pacific on own-metal"
(4) AA, DL, AS(also to use to post miles, avoid SkyPesos), WN.
(5) "I expect to have my business valued"
(6) "SkyPesos"/"they don't fly where I need to go"/"I am hub captive"
Happy now?
This said, there are plenty of answers to your question on this board (which you spend far more time on than most of us), but I can summarize them for you:
(1) Most people like the App showing where your (delayed) airplane is coming from, and how the turn time is not gonna happen, and where you sit on the upgrade list so you can speculate how much people are paying for their TODs.
(2) TOD/lack of upgrades, poor service and soft product, bad reliability, lack of responsiveness in IRROPs, no WiFi top the list.
(3) "I am stuck in a fortress hub"/"I don't want to go to SkyPesos and AA does not serve the pacific on own-metal"
(4) AA, DL, AS(also to use to post miles, avoid SkyPesos), WN.
(5) "I expect to have my business valued"
(6) "SkyPesos"/"they don't fly where I need to go"/"I am hub captive"
Happy now?
Sep 5, 2014, 9:47 am
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,067
To be fair to the OP, he/she's got a point. It does make sense to put our concerns and grievances in black and white, expressed factually, without rancor and expect a civil reply in return. Consider the sorts of posts that many of us write; the combination of complaining with editorializing, with a good dose of cynicism - this sort of commentary if targeted to most of us, we wouldn't want to respond to either. In any case, given the way we criticize UA (and I don't believe I'm an apologist), we'd be hypocrites if we expect them to be perfect mind readers of the sorts of posts many of us write on these threads.
It's the organization's responsibility to dig into what's causing the customers to react in such a manner, and figure it out.
UA tried to have a secret society if you will, with their Communispace group, where they hand-selected members in the hopes that it would remain constructive. Even that didn't work -- they hand-picked members were so pissed off as well, that the threads degraded and they ended up shuddering the site.
UA has the resources to read every thread, every issue, and figure out patterns and where the pain points are. They have UA Insider and other resources. This is not a mom and pop shop that can't afford to have people to do this sort of thing.
They also have a customer relations department which has invaluable data. Old UA used to require that every comment entered into the feedback site be read by at least one relevant manager.
If they wanted to empower UA Insider or someone to be the voice of the customer to influence change, they could. Instead, it takes four years of complaining before they try to do something about that god awful burrito.
If they wanted to listen and improve things, there is no shortage of data. It's right there at their fingertips. The underlying issue is they don't really give a flip.
Sep 5, 2014, 10:19 am
#11
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: sometimes SIN, sometimes JFK/LGA
Programs: UA 1K, 1.6MM bis
Posts: 767
That's simply ridiculous. If you have a restaurant, hotel or other business, and are getting cremated in reviews, do you ignore them because of how they're presented?
<snip>
If they wanted to listen and improve things, there is no shortage of data. It's right there at their fingertips. The underlying issue is they don't really give a flip.
<snip>
If they wanted to listen and improve things, there is no shortage of data. It's right there at their fingertips. The underlying issue is they don't really give a flip.
Even if it's Don Quixote tilting at windmills, how does it hurt things? Doing this can't make things any worse than it is now (or could it)?
Sep 5, 2014, 10:29 am
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Houston / Philadelphia
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 276
To be fair to the OP, he/she's got a point. It does make sense to put our concerns and grievances in black and white, expressed factually, without rancor and expect a civil reply in return. Consider the sorts of posts that many of us write; the combination of complaining with editorializing, with a good dose of cynicism - this sort of commentary if targeted to most of us, we wouldn't want to respond to either. In any case, given the way we criticize UA (and I don't believe I'm an apologist), we'd be hypocrites if we expect them to be perfect mind readers of the sorts of posts many of us write on these threads.
Call it a last ditch good faith attempt on our part as passengers/customers to offer our straight criticisms and comments to UA management, deserved or not. They might just tell us to take a hike or refuse to respond, but if so it will be on them, not us.
Call it a last ditch good faith attempt on our part as passengers/customers to offer our straight criticisms and comments to UA management, deserved or not. They might just tell us to take a hike or refuse to respond, but if so it will be on them, not us.
Sep 5, 2014, 10:40 am
#14
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: sometimes SIN, sometimes JFK/LGA
Programs: UA 1K, 1.6MM bis
Posts: 767
I don't know if this is going to help or do anything. We all know UA's management is like 0 for ten or worse on the things that many of us care about, so I'm not holding my breath either on positive changes. It's just that I don't want to see the OP get stomped on without at least having the chance to exercise his right to be an idealist.
(trini19: you understand you might not get anywhere, right?)
Last edited by dsgtc0408; Sep 5, 2014 at 10:48 am
Sep 5, 2014, 10:53 am
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Houston / Philadelphia
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 276
I want to thank everyone so far for their comments purely because it achieved exactly what it was suppossed to from my viewpoint. If you realize something, those who complained against this thread actually complained with reasons that UA need to know about....funny how things work out....lol.
Now granted that UA may never see this thread, or that they have data to get the information but it seems they are not giving it the priority it deserves is an internal UA issue and reasons can range from crappy management to it's in the pipeline.
If there was another thread like this before then sorry for reposting, I looked but did not find one.
In my mind, as a customer of UA who wants to see the airline better itself, mostly because I am IAH based, I thought passing on these thoughts to UA might be beneficial. I could just tell other FT'ers my opinions here but I chose this avenue instead. Plus I wanted to see what others value.
If UA does nothing with it, then thats bad management and in the end, airlines are a 100% customer driven business and it will affect them. For example, while I fly UA 95% of the time, (and I have had great service from them overall each time honestly), Southwest is expanding their hub at HOU to have more direct flights domestically and internationally. So if in the end its better for me to use SW then I will. I already moved to DL last week as I am not someone to whine and complain but keep doing the same thing (in this case fly the same airline).
Thanks again for those who participated and feel free to post more relevant posts if you like.
Now granted that UA may never see this thread, or that they have data to get the information but it seems they are not giving it the priority it deserves is an internal UA issue and reasons can range from crappy management to it's in the pipeline.
If there was another thread like this before then sorry for reposting, I looked but did not find one.
In my mind, as a customer of UA who wants to see the airline better itself, mostly because I am IAH based, I thought passing on these thoughts to UA might be beneficial. I could just tell other FT'ers my opinions here but I chose this avenue instead. Plus I wanted to see what others value.
If UA does nothing with it, then thats bad management and in the end, airlines are a 100% customer driven business and it will affect them. For example, while I fly UA 95% of the time, (and I have had great service from them overall each time honestly), Southwest is expanding their hub at HOU to have more direct flights domestically and internationally. So if in the end its better for me to use SW then I will. I already moved to DL last week as I am not someone to whine and complain but keep doing the same thing (in this case fly the same airline).
Thanks again for those who participated and feel free to post more relevant posts if you like.