New UA BF seat research

Old Aug 31, 14, 9:28 am
  #106  
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Originally Posted by andrewwm View Post
Delta began domestic wifi installation in August of 2008 and finished in June of 2010.

American began domestic wifi installation in July of 2008 and to my knowledge still hasn't finished.

United began domestic wifi installation in May of 2013 and is expected to finish with domestic birds around spring of next year, substantially beating all of the other majors in terms of speed of roll-out.
Yes, United is rapidly installing WiFi. Five years after the competition started - and in the case of DL - five years after they finished. That is truly something to highlight as a UA "success story."

Now, if they want to actually become an industry leader, maybe they will select a new BF seat, and start installing it as fast as they can.
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Old Aug 31, 14, 2:34 pm
  #107  
 
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Originally Posted by Plane-is-home View Post
Received this:


You’re one of our most valued customers, and your perspective on the United travel experience matters greatly to us. We would like to invite you for an in-person exclusive event at the Boeing Dreamliner Gallery to try a few aircraft seats we’re prototyping and let us know what you think.

We are conducting research the week of Sept. 8, in Seattle, and would like to invite you to participate for one day or night in a simulated flight experience to test new BusinessFirst seat prototypes. If selected, you would be invited to participate in a 9-hour overnight “flight” with a few other individuals or a 3-hour daytime focus group. All travel, hotel and transportation will be provided by United. Additionally, we will be booking exclusive VIP tours of the Boeing manufacturing facility, if interested.
Originally Posted by Plane-is-home View Post
I did not hear back. I guess being 6'6" disqualified me
It is disheartening, but I guess not surprising, that United did not acknowledge your acceptance of their invitation to have a chance at being selected for their focus group. Further why wouldn't one of United's most valued customers be invited out right instead of being invited to be selected? Doesn't make me think important customers are very important at United. Nor does an invitation two weeks before the event.

United doesn't get soft product at all. I mean how hard is it to reply with a canned "Thanks for responding we appreciate your response but blah blah blah"?

Hard product is all we can depend on especially for customers lower on the customer service (soft product) food chain such as measly 1Ks as I. I don't see a lot of improvement aside from inches longer and wider or more aisle access. But we are not going to see the order of magnitude improvement in comfort or aisle access we did form the barcolounger to any flavor of the flat seat in a 2-4-2 configuration with the next iteration.

I don't know what kind of lifetime they expect from the current flat beds. The barcoloungers were looking a little ratty before they replaced them. IMO more than seven years before any current product gets replaced and maybe a decade plus for the current 787s.
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Old Aug 31, 14, 2:48 pm
  #108  
 
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Originally Posted by cerealmarketer View Post
What could be remaining to disclose? Pretty good description of what it will be.

Now it comes down to timing. How quickly does the first get installed, what's the refurb plan, and how dense will biz be vs coach.

If it involves making planes higher density the process could go more quickly because they have the revenue incentive to do it. Great for full fare flyers. Less so for mixed full fare biz / coach fare flyers who upgrade.

Upgraders will get more utility out of a less dense config that is installed over a longer period.
So long as configuration remains 2-4-2 with no direct aisle access, no improvement is possible
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Old Aug 31, 14, 2:54 pm
  #109  
 
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Originally Posted by manstein58 View Post
So long as configuration remains 2-4-2 with no direct aisle access, no improvement is possible
Take a look through the thread: there's consensus that neither of those attributes will be present in the new BF configuration, though it's at least two years out.
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Old Aug 31, 14, 3:15 pm
  #110  
 
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Originally Posted by halls120 View Post
Yes, United is rapidly installing WiFi. Five years after the competition started - and in the case of DL - five years after they finished. That is truly something to highlight as a UA "success story."
Not surprising given how low the bar has been set for UA expectations. Only UA pax could cheer that UA is doing something in the same ballpark as AA/DL even when it's several years late.

Plus, this is not even mentioning that UA in typical fashion PR'd their large-scale wifi plans all the way back in March 2011. I actually thought they started domestic wifi rollout before the May 2013 date that people are batting around, but if that date is correct, that means that UA was a whopping 2 years behind their PR announcement. I think that coupled with the lag behind AA/DL is what most people are talking about with respect to slow rollout of wifi - because we've been talking about having wifi on UA for ages and have mostly just been waiting.

It's actually really amusing to draw the parallels between the wifi rollout and the new BF seat. Already in this thread we saw some UA FT'ers are happy just that it's not going to be an industry-worst seat.


Originally Posted by CanadaOhMy View Post
But we are not going to see the order of magnitude improvement in comfort or aisle access we did form the barcolounger to any flavor of the flat seat in a 2-4-2 configuration with the next iteration.
I agree strongly with pretty much everything else in your post, but just wanted to note that to me, direct aisle access is actually a similar magnitude improvement as lie-flats over barcaloungers.

Last edited by gengar; Aug 31, 14 at 3:20 pm
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Old Aug 31, 14, 4:11 pm
  #111  
 
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Originally Posted by gengar View Post
I agree strongly with pretty much everything else in your post, but just wanted to note that to me, direct aisle access is actually a similar magnitude improvement as lie-flats over barcaloungers.
I buy international business on United now. I didn't with the barcalounger. If the barcalounger would have had direct aisle access I still wouldn't have. I did upgrade every time I could with my SWUs.

I like the reported increase Biz to Coach ratios on the 78J and 35J. I like using my 6 GPUs each year. If I can't use them then that increases my $20k to $30k PQD each year and I status match to another airline or Kayak no matter how easy it is to get up and go to the bathroom.

I would love to have direct aisle access with every seat in BF. I am not going to pay a premium for it.
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Old Aug 31, 14, 4:45 pm
  #112  
 
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Originally Posted by Eric Westby View Post
Take a look through the thread: there's consensus that neither of those attributes will be present in the new BF configuration, though it's at least two years out.
OK will do but those aspects aren't "attributes" in any sense of the word. Until then, I will only fly pmCO777's or GF
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Old Aug 31, 14, 8:07 pm
  #113  
 
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Originally Posted by manstein58 View Post
OK will do but those aspects aren't "attributes" in any sense of the word. Until then, I will only fly pmCO777's or GF
Not sure I follow. The word "attribute" doesn't carry any positive connotation.
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Old Aug 31, 14, 9:07 pm
  #114  
 
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Originally Posted by manstein58 View Post
So long as configuration remains 2-4-2 with no direct aisle access, no improvement is possible
Originally Posted by Eric Westby View Post
Take a look through the thread: there's consensus that neither of those attributes will be present in the new BF configuration, though it's at least two years out.
And as sure as the day is long Ft'ers will be crying the blues about reduced upgrade opportunities when the seating is changed to allow direct aisle access from all BF seats which naturally reduces the number of BF seats that can fit in the cabin.

As much as the 2-4-2 config has some disadvantages, I actually prefer the sUA seat compared to the sCO configuration due to the increased usable length of the seat (I'm 6'5" with large feet). I'll grant you that the middle pair of seats in the 2-4-2 setup is not exactly "lux" but I'll still take it any day as an upgrade from a coach seat @:-)

ETA: Being 6'5" I also have no problem climbing over an aisle seat in the lie flat configuration when I'm in a window or middle seat. So again, direct aisle access for me is not a big discriminator. YMMV!

Last edited by PHLGovFlyer; Aug 31, 14 at 9:15 pm
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Old Sep 1, 14, 6:43 am
  #115  
 
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Originally Posted by PHLGovFlyer View Post
And as sure as the day is long Ft'ers will be crying the blues about reduced upgrade opportunities when the seating is changed to allow direct aisle access from all BF seats which naturally reduces the number of BF seats that can fit in the cabin.
While I like the amenity of having all aisle access, I would hate to see what the reduction in capacity will do to the price of a seat. Coming from a working-class family with a salary that means flying BF has to be carefully planned, having to pay more for a J seat would probably put us back in Y+. I don't see what is wrong with the pmCO J cabin. I admit the window doesn't offer aisle access, but you will loose all of those window seats, and probably only have the same number of aisle seats as you have now. If you can't get an aisle seat now, you can probably kiss that upgrade goodbye with the new configuration. If you really want all aisle access, go Global First, or pick one of the 4 out of 6 seats in the pmUA cabin that does offer aisle access. In conclusion, I can't see the benefit of cutting capacity to go all aisle.

As I type this, I think that many of the posters are basically asking that the J cabin be replaced with F seats at a J cabin price and name.
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Old Sep 1, 14, 8:58 am
  #116  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewwm View Post
Thanks for the gratuitous insult, but as usual you are wrong.

Delta began domestic wifi installation in August of 2008 and finished in June of 2010.

American began domestic wifi installation in July of 2008 and to my knowledge still hasn't finished.

United began domestic wifi installation in May of 2013 and is expected to finish with domestic birds around spring of next year, substantially beating all of the other majors in terms of speed of roll-out.
United announced its wifi plans "more than 300 planes in the domestic AND international fleets" on November 7, 2011. http://crankyflier.com/2011/11/07/un...ver-the-water/

Jeff was in charge at this point, now three years later, it will still not be done.

And oh, how about wifi on the hundreds and hundreds of CRJ700s and ERJ-145s that fly very very long flights. Maybe you have missed it, but Delta has Wifi on nearly all of its RJ birds, and has had it there for 4-5 years.

As usual with this big hat, not cattle management team, they are a buck short, and a day late. And a new BF seat will be exactly the same.


Originally Posted by gengar View Post

Plus, this is not even mentioning that UA in typical fashion PR'd their large-scale wifi plans all the way back in March 2011. I actually thought they started domestic wifi rollout before the May 2013 date that people are batting around, but if that date is correct, that means that UA was a whopping 2 years behind their PR announcement. I think that coupled with the lag behind AA/DL is what most people are talking about with respect to slow rollout of wifi - because we've been talking about having wifi on UA for ages and have mostly just been waiting.

It's actually really amusing to draw the parallels between the wifi rollout and the new BF seat. Already in this thread we saw some UA FT'ers are happy just that it's not going to be an industry-worst seat.
bingo. It was a late strategic plan, a failure to execute, and then the plan did not cover the entire (or in fact even half) of the fleet.
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Old Sep 1, 14, 10:15 am
  #117  
 
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In TPE right now, having just flown in the EVA Royal Laurel seat - actually my first experience in the reverse herringbone seat. Although the bed length was great, the coffin that your legs slide into restricts leg/knee movement, and made it very difficult for me to sleep in. Ranks right down there with the more restrictive staggered layouts. The pmCO 777 bulkhead and the pmUA current C seats are, incredibly, better for sleeping for me personally. That said, if that one deficiency can be ironed out, then the reverse herringbone C seat would be my seat of choice. Well, apart from the Etihad Residences, of course
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Old Sep 1, 14, 10:24 am
  #118  
 
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My goal is to sleep as much as I can when I am in BF/GF. Aisle access is nice but not if it is at the expense of sleeping comfort. I think the more BF seats there are on a plane the better it is for cost and upgrade chances.
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Old Sep 1, 14, 10:58 am
  #119  
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Originally Posted by txny View Post
2-2-2 on most Qatar aircraft? UA isn't exactly light years behind when it compared to the fleetwide product on other carriers.
What direction are they heading?
Qatar is installing the 1-2-1 Super Diamond on their brand new 787 deliveries.
United is installing the 2-2-2 Parallel Diamond on their brand new 787 deliveries.
You think UA is going to toss those PD seats in a few years?

Originally Posted by UA-NYC View Post
That's basically the same as the reverse herringbone found on CX, AA 773s, AC's 787, etc. right? I'd take that in a heartbeat - I'm no longer expecting UA to set the (positive) trends, but at least they'd catch up.
Yes, all 3 are installing the contemporary Super Diamond instead of the Parallel Diamond UA seems content with.
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Old Sep 1, 14, 11:15 am
  #120  
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Remember when the current seats were put in? UA was years behind their announced completion date. That had even started to charge higher upgrade miles because of the new seats 2-3 prior to actually having it done.
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