New UA BF seat research

Old Aug 29, 14, 8:33 am
  #76  
 
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Originally Posted by CO_Nonrev_elite View Post
Power is going into every plane in the fleet Rome wasn't built in a day, it takes a while to retrofit it to the pmUA fleet.
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Sadly even this isn't true. The Airbus are getting power for first class and E+ but not for E-
Every plane, not every seat.
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Old Aug 29, 14, 8:55 am
  #77  
 
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Competitive YES, but better? no clear evidence to support that

Originally Posted by cerealmarketer View Post
....
The seat market is competitive, and the vendors are fighting for airline share. So they've presented UA with something better than AA / DL, and probably at a similar price as they get the cost down with each iteration.

It won't blow Etihad away, but history says the new seat will beat AA and DL's current installs.
I don't want to discuss details because of the NDA but having tested the prototypes and flown on the current AA 777-300 seat and the Delta seat, I would say these seats are competitive but not necessarily better. I think for some people they will be better but for some they will not depending on personal preferences.

The prototypes shown were a significant leap forward from the current UA/CO seat but NOT a significant leap forward from the new AA 777-300 seat by any measure that I could detect.

We should be happy that UA is not considering a less than state of the art seat like the business class seat Lufthansa is currently rolling out, which does not even offer direct aisle access for all seats.
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Old Aug 29, 14, 9:23 am
  #78  
 
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Originally Posted by fly18725 View Post
Every plane, not every seat.
Doesn't help those much who are in a seat that doesn't have it.
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Old Aug 29, 14, 10:01 am
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Is guess they go with a less-optioned variant of Quatar's new 787 J seat. Manufactured by B/E.
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Old Aug 29, 14, 10:49 am
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Originally Posted by CO_Nonrev_elite View Post
Doesn't help those much who are in a seat that doesn't have it.
Having better BF seats doesn't help those seated in Y either.

Like many other product improvements, power ports are most accessible to the highest yielding pax. If you spend a lot of time in Y- and power ports are important to you, then fly an airline that offers that service.
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Old Aug 29, 14, 10:55 am
  #81  
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Originally Posted by andrewwm View Post

UA had flat seats as for about 4-5 years when no competitor had a meaningful number of them installed. UA has now been somewhat passed, but if UA begins install in 2-3 years, then they will leap ahead for a little while.
doesn't sound they they want to leap ahead this time, perhaps close to gap. It will take them years to retrofit the unacceptable PMUA planes and by that time they won't be in the lead.
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Old Aug 29, 14, 11:08 am
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Originally Posted by fly18725 View Post
Having better BF seats doesn't help those seated in Y either.

Like many other product improvements, power ports are most accessible to the highest yielding pax. If you spend a lot of time in Y- and power ports are important to you, then fly an airline that offers that service.
remember that the next time you misconnected and end up in a middle back on a transcon.

Power should not be a "high yield" differentiating factor. it should be universally available especially when you brag about a wifi/personal entertainment system based upon assumption people have devices.

In fact I'll take it a step further, if I'm in the back and I know my phone only has an hour left on it, no way I'm paying for the wifi to kill my battery. if I had a plug? then maybe there is some ancillary revenue for United.

From a cost position you aren't sacrificing a lot adding power to the back half of the plane.
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Old Aug 29, 14, 11:32 am
  #83  
 
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Originally Posted by ORD4R View Post
I don't want to discuss details because of the NDA but having tested the prototypes and flown on the current AA 777-300 seat and the Delta seat, I would say these seats are competitive but not necessarily better. I think for some people they will be better but for some they will not depending on personal preferences.

The prototypes shown were a significant leap forward from the current UA/CO seat but NOT a significant leap forward from the new AA 777-300 seat by any measure that I could detect.

We should be happy that UA is not considering a less than state of the art seat like the business class seat Lufthansa is currently rolling out, which does not even offer direct aisle access for all seats.
This is a fair summary IMO, though I think the last comment is the important one for all the naysayers here. They are looking at the latest and greatest options out there, which would be consistent with the top-end of the J market today. I'm not sure how people expect them to "leap ahead" of a something in line with a 1-2-1 all-aisle, all lie-flat config. Are they merely "catching up"? I suppose, but you could also argue that their competition isn't exactly blazing a path far out in front of them. If I fly AA to Europe out of ORD, there isn't a single flight with a flat bed today. KLM/LH/BA are moving all-flat (LH not there yet), but aren't all-aisle. Heck, I need to go to India in a few weeks and for the first time looked at the middle east options - 2-3-2 on Emirates? 2-2-2 on most Qatar aircraft? UA isn't exactly light years behind when it compared to the fleetwide product on other carriers. Soft product is a different story, but some of the comments here about the hard product seem a little out of touch with reality.
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Old Aug 29, 14, 11:40 am
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Originally Posted by txny View Post
This is a fair summary IMO, though I think the last comment is the important one for all the naysayers here.
Are you serious? The "important" comment is that UA is not going to have the industry-worst next-gen lie-flat J seat? Is that really the bar for UA these days?

Given UA these days, I don't expect UA to "leap ahead" (whatever that means - quite subjective) - but what I would like UA to have is the leading next-gen lie-flat seat. Not what ORD4R describes as 'better for some, worse for others', and not merely competitive with what already exists on AA/DL.
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Old Aug 29, 14, 11:54 am
  #85  
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Originally Posted by tuolumne View Post
Is guess they go with a less-optioned variant of Quatar's new 787 J seat. Manufactured by B/E.
That's basically the same as the reverse herringbone found on CX, AA 773s, AC's 787, etc. right? I'd take that in a heartbeat - I'm no longer expecting UA to set the (positive) trends, but at least they'd catch up.
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Old Aug 29, 14, 12:08 pm
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I'm really at a loss for what people expect beyond lay-flat and aisle access in J. This is what people used to expect out of a first-class product, so I suppose you expect them to start installing suites into business? Yes, that would certainly leap ahead of most carriers, but is it reasonable to expect?

I'm genuinely curious what ideas people have on a wishlist that they'd like to see UA put in, that would be considered a "leap ahead"?
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Old Aug 29, 14, 12:10 pm
  #87  
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Originally Posted by villox View Post
I'm really at a loss for what people expect beyond lay-flat and aisle access in J. This is what people used to expect out of a first-class product, so I suppose you expect them to start installing suites into business? Yes, that would certainly leap ahead of most carriers, but is it reasonable to expect?

I'm genuinely curious what ideas people have on a wishlist that they'd like to see UA put in, that would be considered a "leap ahead"?
Well, F used to have lie flats and Business had barqaloungers (sp?) And before that even F didn't have lie flats. Things change with time. Now business has lie flats and has for a long time. Why shouldn't things improve? Do you want to stay in the 90's and think that is all business class should get?
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Old Aug 29, 14, 1:06 pm
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Originally Posted by gengar View Post
Are you serious? The "important" comment is that UA is not going to have the industry-worst next-gen lie-flat J seat? Is that really the bar for UA these days?

Given UA these days, I don't expect UA to "leap ahead" (whatever that means - quite subjective) - but what I would like UA to have is the leading next-gen lie-flat seat. Not what ORD4R describes as 'better for some, worse for others', and not merely competitive with what already exists on AA/DL.
The way people talk about UA these days, particularly here, yeah, that's the bar.

If what you want is a leading next-gen lie-flat seat, I think you'll be happy. Everyone from UA that I spoke to at the event understood all of my complaints about the current pmUA and pmCO J seats - they acknowledged that certain design features in the old seats don't work in today's market - 2-4-2 config / placement of power ports and headphone jacks / small footwells / no storage / crawling over people to get out / etc. Undoubtedly, people will find issues with whatever new seat UA goes with. Impossible to please everyone. But if the new seats are competitive with the new AA J seat and other similar seats on the market, I'm not sure what more we could reasonably expect.
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Old Aug 29, 14, 1:13 pm
  #89  
 
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Originally Posted by ACVBear View Post
From a cost position you aren't sacrificing a lot adding power to the back half of the plane.
Yes, you are. Power requires extensive engineering and wiring and adds weight.
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Old Aug 29, 14, 3:28 pm
  #90  
 
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Originally Posted by fly18725 View Post
Yes, you are. Power requires extensive engineering and wiring and adds weight.
So much extra weight and engineering that it seems to be ok for the competition to have it, but United not to have it on planes that they are actually releasing as their new product
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