New UA BF seat research
Aug 28, 2014, 2:15 pm
#61
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
Went to the event today. UA showed us several BF seat mockups at various stages of advancement.
I thought one stood out (as in stood out compared to the other seats presented or in operation today and not stood out compared to what is offered by global competitors).
IMHO, with any of these seats, they will just be playing catch-up, no strategic leap. But this may be what UA needs at this point.
I thought one stood out (as in stood out compared to the other seats presented or in operation today and not stood out compared to what is offered by global competitors).
IMHO, with any of these seats, they will just be playing catch-up, no strategic leap. But this may be what UA needs at this point.
Aug 28, 2014, 2:25 pm
#62
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SEA, WAS, PEK
Programs: UA 3K UGS 3MM
Posts: 2,176
Went to the event today. UA showed us several BF seat mockups at various stages of advancement.
I thought one stood out (as in stood out compared to the other seats presented or in operation today and not stood out compared to what is offered by global competitors).
IMHO, with any of these seats, they will just be playing catch-up, no strategic leap. But this may be what UA needs at this point.
I thought one stood out (as in stood out compared to the other seats presented or in operation today and not stood out compared to what is offered by global competitors).
IMHO, with any of these seats, they will just be playing catch-up, no strategic leap. But this may be what UA needs at this point.
Aug 28, 2014, 2:36 pm
#63
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Programs: AA lt Gld - 1.7MM; UA GS; Marriott LT Plt; Thalys Gold
Posts: 244
Lots of questions going around (you didn't really knew who you talked to either. There were manufacturers, agency folks, and UA product people). Answers tended to be elusive IMO. Even things like "are you doing away with the 2-4-2 or 2-3-3 with no aisle access on wide body" didn't generate clear answers (some of the options showed did not). I thought they did a good job at keeping the objectives of the research on track, being discussing BF and not going on the tangent.
Some other FTers were there per earlier posts, they may have a different perspective.
PS: there was food and I tought the fried coconut shrip they served resembled the onses served in GF
Some other FTers were there per earlier posts, they may have a different perspective.
PS: there was food and I tought the fried coconut shrip they served resembled the onses served in GF
Aug 28, 2014, 7:18 pm
#64
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 106
Went to the event today. UA showed us several BF seat mockups at various stages of advancement.
I thought one stood out (as in stood out compared to the other seats presented or in operation today and not stood out compared to what is offered by global competitors).
IMHO, with any of these seats, they will just be playing catch-up, no strategic leap. But this may be what UA needs at this point.
I thought one stood out (as in stood out compared to the other seats presented or in operation today and not stood out compared to what is offered by global competitors).
IMHO, with any of these seats, they will just be playing catch-up, no strategic leap. But this may be what UA needs at this point.
Aug 28, 2014, 7:45 pm
#65
Join Date: May 2007
Location: variously: PVG, SFO, LHR
Programs: AA ExPlat, UA 1MM Gold, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat, HH Gold
Posts: 1,678
I don't know who you are kidding, this management team is not interested in leading product, hard or soft. Check out the new Y seats, check out the no-IFE or power, check out the worst Domestic F soft product (by a lot), check out bad international soft product, especially booze. Fly GF, get fresh-brew coffee. Need I say more.
Rome wasn't built in a day, it takes a while to retrofit it to the pmUA fleet.Domestic F soft product. Hmm, not really the subject of this thread, but is obviously improving. Soon UA will have the most generous meal windows and a better meal selection.
Also note that on all pmCO widebody planes there are Espresso and Cappuccino makers. All new deliveries going forward should have the machines (they were retrofitted onto the ghettobirds, so obviously this service is sticking around).
So yeah, tell us something we don't know: pmUA underinvested in their airplanes.
I assume they have already picked something for the A350, and this (like with the Airbus seats that were so bad) they are just showing it off to make them all feel how smart they are, perhaps looking at one or two slight configuration changes.
AA is 9 across in their Main Cabin Extra (E+ equivalent) seats on the 777
Last edited by andrewwm; Aug 28, 2014 at 7:53 pm
Aug 28, 2014, 7:48 pm
#66
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LAS ORD
Programs: AA Pro (mostly B6) OZ♦ (flying BR/UA), BA Silver Hyatt LT, Wynn Black, Cosmo Plat, Mlife Noir
Posts: 5,992
AA's E+ (MCE) is 3-3-3 on the 77W and will be 3-3-3 on the initially-refurbished 772s.
However, some FT'ers/bloggers are insisting that AA will eventually move 772 refurbishments to a high-density, low-J, 3-4-3 MCE on later-refurbished 772s, and then eventually also convert the initially-refurbished 772s to that layout.
Hard to believe that AA would go to these lengths (not to mention the nightmare of having vastly different fleet configurations), but that's what's being reported.
Aug 28, 2014, 8:04 pm
#67
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: near to SFO and LHR
Programs: BA Gold, B6 Mosiac, VS, AA, DL (and a legacy UA 2MM)
Posts: 2,274
Yes, but there are only 30 E+ seats on AA's 77W. They are 9 across as you say. The rest of the economy seats on AA's 777 are 10 across - ouch!
By contrast, there are over 100 E+ seats on UA's 777, and the rest of E is 9 across, not 10.
Agree though that AA's C class seats on this model certainly look nicer than UA's.
By contrast, there are over 100 E+ seats on UA's 777, and the rest of E is 9 across, not 10.
Agree though that AA's C class seats on this model certainly look nicer than UA's.
Aug 29, 2014, 1:33 am
#68
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SEA
Programs: Million Miles achieved | 2017 Delta Platinum, United NADA, Global Entry, PreCheck, NEXUS
Posts: 1,295
I was there as well, but had a different, slightly more positive take. They clearly are focused on all-aisle access, increased privacy, length of the bed, placement of outlets, storage space, etc (basically all of the factors that people complain about on the current seats). People will always have different opinions on these seats (and it was interesting to hear different people's reactions to each of the different seats and their features), but I thought the options compared well to other J products on the market today (and a huge step up from their current offerings). Will be interested to see the direction they ultimately go. Would be more specific, but had to sign an NDA.
Aug 29, 2014, 1:39 am
#69
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: UA *G 1MM LT United Club & Global Entry
Posts: 2,756
SunLover
Aug 29, 2014, 2:07 am
#70
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
Posts: 4,599
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.c...-class-cabins/
HPdbaAA is no where to hide and leading the race to the bottom.
Aug 29, 2014, 2:15 am
#71
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
Posts: 4,599
When UA started lie flat in 2007 it was the best seat of the US carriers.
When CO started lie flat in 2009 it went with a newer gen seat than UA to avoid rear facing. And DL / AA had no lie flats, so that was enough then.
It's simply a function of what's available in the market when the spec is made.
When DL went lie flat it went with a seat better than UA or CO biz.
When AA went lie flat it went with one better than UA, CO, or DL.
The seat market is competitive, and the vendors are fighting for airline share. So they've presented UA with something better than AA / DL, and probably at a similar price as they get the cost down with each iteration.
It won't blow Etihad away, but history says the new seat will beat AA and DL's current installs.
When CO started lie flat in 2009 it went with a newer gen seat than UA to avoid rear facing. And DL / AA had no lie flats, so that was enough then.
It's simply a function of what's available in the market when the spec is made.
When DL went lie flat it went with a seat better than UA or CO biz.
When AA went lie flat it went with one better than UA, CO, or DL.
The seat market is competitive, and the vendors are fighting for airline share. So they've presented UA with something better than AA / DL, and probably at a similar price as they get the cost down with each iteration.
It won't blow Etihad away, but history says the new seat will beat AA and DL's current installs.
I don't know who you are kidding, this management team is not interested in leading product, hard or soft. Check out the new Y seats, check out the no-IFE or power, check out the worst Domestic F soft product (by a lot), check out bad international soft product, especially booze. Fly GF, get fresh-brew coffee. Need I say more.
Their target market is corporate accounts that want the cheapest price (and get a 40% or more discount) and suckers who don't know better than not to book United.
I assume they have already picked something for the A350, and this (like with the Airbus seats that were so bad) they are just showing it off to make them all feel how smart they are, perhaps looking at one or two slight configuration changes.
Well that is their stratagy, afterall everyone just buys on (1) route and (2) price. Nothing else matters we are always told.
speaking of which, did anyone notice this, piece saying the seat comfort is the biggest consumer issue: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/b...mbers/?hpid=z4
Their target market is corporate accounts that want the cheapest price (and get a 40% or more discount) and suckers who don't know better than not to book United.
I assume they have already picked something for the A350, and this (like with the Airbus seats that were so bad) they are just showing it off to make them all feel how smart they are, perhaps looking at one or two slight configuration changes.
Well that is their stratagy, afterall everyone just buys on (1) route and (2) price. Nothing else matters we are always told.
speaking of which, did anyone notice this, piece saying the seat comfort is the biggest consumer issue: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/b...mbers/?hpid=z4
Aug 29, 2014, 3:33 am
#72
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS/EAP
Programs: UA 1K, MR LTT, HH Dia, Amex Plat
Posts: 32,038
I believe it when I see it. It will take UA 3 years to roll it out just to be marginally competitive with DL and of course by then DL will start upgrading their cabins. If an airline is as much behind as UA (like 2-3 years) they must go all in and I doubt they will do this.
Aug 29, 2014, 6:35 am
#73
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
I believe it when I see it. It will take UA 3 years to roll it out just to be marginally competitive with DL and of course by then DL will start upgrading their cabins. If an airline is as much behind as UA (like 2-3 years) they must go all in and I doubt they will do this.
Aug 29, 2014, 6:56 am
#74
Join Date: May 2007
Location: variously: PVG, SFO, LHR
Programs: AA ExPlat, UA 1MM Gold, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat, HH Gold
Posts: 1,678
I believe it when I see it. It will take UA 3 years to roll it out just to be marginally competitive with DL and of course by then DL will start upgrading their cabins. If an airline is as much behind as UA (like 2-3 years) they must go all in and I doubt they will do this.
UA had flat seats as for about 4-5 years when no competitor had a meaningful number of them installed. UA has now been somewhat passed, but if UA begins install in 2-3 years, then they will leap ahead for a little while.
At this point, anyway, if you have all aisle access and a fully flat seat I don't know what else there really is to meaningfully beat that. Maybe a few small bells and whistles but that's it...
Aug 29, 2014, 7:48 am
#75
Join Date: May 2005
Programs: Million Miler, 1K - Basically spend a lot of time on planes
Posts: 2,202
Power is going into every plane in the fleet Rome wasn't built in a day, it takes a while to retrofit it to the pmUA fleet.
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Sadly even this isn't true. The Airbus are getting power for first class and E+ but not for E-
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Sadly even this isn't true. The Airbus are getting power for first class and E+ but not for E-