zaccaggie

looking for advice from the crowd....

daughter is flying back home to DC today. her itin VCE-ZRH-IAD. has MP upgrade confirmed ZRH-IAD on UA53, spent $550+20K miles.

gets on Swiss this morning in VCE. leaves on time but arrives at gate 10-15 min late (11:18 vice 11:05). she had scheduled 50 min layover. she runs.....

gets to gate at 11:42 for 11:55 takeoff. she and 6 others are left standing there with the door closed but the plane still there. they say too bad.
give me a break.....

they get sent off to the transfer desk. she calls me and I log on to see that they have rebooked her to tomorrow's UA53. I also see that LX leaves at 1300 for JFK connecting to IAD. I also see LH at 1425 to FRA and then the 5pm UA933 to IAD. both would get her home today instead of tomorrow.

transfer desk says go back to the gate. while she does that hokey pokey, I call United to see if I can get her on one of those two choices that would get her home today.

they tell me no seats (even though I see seats for $7-8K in F and J). they also say that since they are on LH and LX, that requires 24 hours to confirm the space. I say why would you sell same day tickets if that were true ???
I think they don't want to rebook her in F/J on LH or LX and want her to fly UA tomorrow (in econ BTW and no upgrade).

The gate tells all of them to go back to the transfer desk. (I don't know why they have gone back and forth twice)

By this time its close to 12:30, and finally gets to the front and explains her deal to the VERY NICE desk agent who manages to put her on the LX leaving at 1300 (and in J). She runs (again) and makes it on the plane with about 5 minutes to spare. She will be home tonite at 9pm vice 4pm.

My issue------
does she get refunded the MP plus the $ fee since she didn't fly UA J?
Or because she got onto LX J (with ABSOLUTELY NO HELP FROM UA) does she not?

why does UA show availability same day for purchase and then the agents tell you that they need 24 hours to confirm partner avail?

why would they leave 7 people with bags standing at the gate and then have to get all their bags off and deal with the rebooking. The other 6 had connections in IAD that they were going to miss........


thanks.......

Kacee

Sorry to hear about your daughter's difficulties. These situations are especially frustrating to deal with long distance.

But please note that it's not UA's fault the inbound LX flight was delayed. The carrier that caused the miss is responsible for rebooking; in this case, LX. Your daughter should have gone to LX and requested they rebook her on their own metal.

Edited to add: Whoops, did I miss the part about LX rebooking her in J the first time I read this? In any event, that's a great result. I really don't see any bad by UA here, and certainly no basis for any refund.

RobOnLI

1. No, she (you) is not due any refund. She flew the class she was booked in, even though it was an upgrade. If she flew coach on any airline then a refund would be due.

2. UA allows you to book those flights because it can take "up to" 24 hours to confirm availability. Most of the time, especially with LH, those flights ticket relatively immediately just like a UA flight.

This reminds me of a situation two years ago where I booked a fully operated TK itinerary through UA the day before I had to travel. Got the email saying it was confirmed and would ticket within 24 hours. Woke up the next morning to find my itin had just flat out been cancelled. UA told me TK didn't confirm the flights and it was too close to flight time. I wound up flying Royal Jordanian who still had seats (this was GVA to AMM).

3. UA is more interested in on-time performance. The gate agent could likely see who was going to misconnect and decided to close the door "on time". Remember, you must be on board at least 15 minutes before departure. ZRH may have an even larger gap. No bags had to be offloaded because the connection bags never made it on in the first place most likely. When the door to the plane shut, the cargo loading door likely also closed so no more bags loaded.

At least your daughter is getting home on the same day as scheduled and in business. 50 minutes is a very tight European connection and domestic flights can be delayed all the time just like in the US. Maybe the lesson from this is to book flights that don't have such a short connection time unless it's domestic to domestic (by domestic I mean intra-Europe).

-RM

JDS747

No, you paid for J (cash + miles + co-pay) and she flew J. If she would have flow E then you would be entitled to a refund but since she didn't you're not.

Lets look at this a different way... Say there were over 100 people on the plane with connections in IAD, and if they wait for the 7 late passengers they'll have to deal with rebooking over 100 people instead of 6. Which would you choose to do if it were your business?

Also, it's likely none of their bags were already on the flight so that's a moot point.

The only piece of advice I could give here would be to not book such a tight connection whenever you're booking international fights. It doesn't matter if it's Europe, Asia, US, etc or if the website lets you do it or bla bla bla. If you can accept the risk of missing the flight and having to deal with rebooking then tight connections are fine. If you want to mitigate that risk and mitigate the rebooking fiasco then leave yourself at least 2-3 hrs on an international connection.

zrs70

I beg to differ with the other posters. I think she should get the miles and $$$ back.

Here's why?

UA has no structure to "map" it's upgrade to the LX flight. In order to upgrade on LX, the fare needs to be BYCD, and there is no copay.

If LX rebooked the passenger into full J, the 20K miles plus $500 wouldn't get transfered to LX. Likely, they would stay in UA's pocket. But UA ultimately didn't provide the service. And so, they should refund the miles/ money.

Edited to add: she did NOT fly in the class she was booked in. We don't know the fare basis. But we do know she was upgraded by UA into R. I don't believe R means anything to LX!

kenn0223

I wouldn't be surprised if she was automatically refunded the miles and cash after the fact. It's happened to me a number of times with GPUs if I am rerouted and the ticket is reissued.

As far as if she is due a refund...No, she paid to upgrade into a higher class and that is what she flew. Maybe she is owed some compensation due to the run around she got, but the going rate for that these days is far less than the cost of the upgrade.

WineCountryUA

if she flew LX J home, then unlikley a refund (but stranger things can happen) and it it does not then there is no grounds for refund request. As LX created the problem, it was LX responsible to fix the issue (Not UA) and glad to see LX honored the upgrade.

24 hours is for award tickets not paid tickets and it is allowed by *A rules.

This always a difficult issue. The UA folks had no idea when the delayed passagner would show up and if they delayed the departure UA may have lost their departure spot -- further delaying the aircraft and risking the connections for hundreds of passengers. So it is a risk tradeoff for a few passengers versus a plane full of passengers.

It is nice for the delayed passengers when they wait, but at ZRH and most international airports you are required to be at the gate and ready to board 30 minutes prior to departure or risk loss of seat assignment / boarding rights. And transit from one gate to another in FRA can be very time consuming.

IAH-OIL-TRASH

Sorry - UA has every right to close the doors 15 minutes prior. Sometimes they hold the plane, sometimes they don't. Holding the plane for 6 people delays a couple of hundred already on board, dozens of whom might have tight connections at other end. This is standard procedure for most airlines. That's why tight connections are best avoided.

"they also say that since they are on LH and LX, that requires 24 hours to confirm the space. I say why would you sell same day tickets if that were true ???"

It's common practice to sell the tickets and then confirm w/ other carrier. Nothing new here.

Kinda dumb to expect refund if she got into J on the way back. If she was economy, yes, but in this case, no. She should get compensation for the delay, but considering it's an int'l IRROP, she's far luckier than a lot of people who are stranded, who end up spending the night. 5 hours late vs 24 hours or more? If you do a lot of international travelling, this is a hiccup and not a disaster.

WineCountryUA

30 minutes at ZRH and that or more at most non-domestic airports.

PVDProf

First, your daughter came out way ahead here: LX J is perhaps the best J over the Atlantic, and much nicer than UA J. If you were willing to pay what you did for UA J, then you should feel like you got a great deal.

Second, I'm not sure your daughter got worse than standard irrops handling: the starting point is always next UA flight on same route (which is substandard), and upgrades are never preserved (which is the rules of the game). By asking for something specific, you can usually get another an OAL flight that's better, but in the purchased class, Y here.

Third, the question is what will you end up paying for this, and what windfalls you might get. It's not straightforward because:

I would wait a couple weeks, and see whether any of miles or money just comes back (I think this is likely, for the reason above), what fare class posts to your daughter's MP account (could be C). That will at least let you know what UA thinks happened, and you may be able to ask for adjustments from there.

Post the results here; I'm curious what they'll do!

spearsba

I would contact UA and tell them she missed her UA connection and was placed by LX onto LX. I would then ask for a miles and refund. Afterall, UA did not provide the service. They are sure to have filled her seat with someone on the UG list who coughed up a GPU or miles. ZHR to IAD stays full from my recollection. Why should UA get paid twice for the same seat's UG?

wpr8e

Why should UA take the hit when it was something out of their control?

There's no mapping, but there are prorate agreements (but not sure how the revenue is allocated when the operating carrier is late and the passenger is re-accommodated on their own metal) Assuming this is ticketed on UA, LX is going to get some prorated portion of the ticket during reconciliation. The incremental cost of transporting her on a 'would have been empty anyway J seat" is not huge, (it's also not nothing), but it was LX's fault for delivering her late to the connection.

I think most airlines treat this as a wash since this happens to LX today, and UA tomorrow. Especially in this case, there's a JV between the carriers so it really doesn't matter.

channa

Less than an hour of running around like a madman and still getting home the same day, including honoring the upgrade on an OAL?

That's stellar for UA in IRROPS.

WineCountryUA

By the logic in a paid bussiness class ticket, in irrops, where LZ place you in their flight in J, you would want a refund from UA??

Sorry does not work that way.


LX and UA will be working out a transfer of payment for LX providing the transportation instead of UA.

stargold

I'm utterly lost as to why the OP, and some others, think there is even the remotest chance of getting the miles and co-pay back. OP's daughter had a booking in J - that's what she flew.

Any remaining questions regarding "mapping R into LX inventory" and such like are purely issues for UA and LX to resolve, and are not concerns of the passenger.1. Utterly irrelevant.
2. What do you mean she did not fly in the class she was booked in? If you're saying this because she didn't travel in R class on LX takes pedantry and nitpicking to a level I have not seen before.UA now has to pay LX for the re-accommodation, and this is likely to be heck of a lot more than whatever revenue they received from the passenger that may have been able to upgrade into the OP's daughter's original seat. Bottom line, UA did not get paid twice for the same seat.