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Some Observations of AA vs UA by a UA flyer(s)

Some Observations of AA vs UA by a UA flyer(s)

Old Jul 16, 2014, 9:42 pm
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by Col Ronson
Yeah i find that Star is a more mature and well managed alliance than Oneworld, although Oneworld is still better than skyteam (skyteam airlines are all a mess except for DL).
I'd say oneworld is very well managed. My experiences when traveling with them abroad - from check-in to lounges to in-flight - has been superb. I've even had my emerald status acknowledged with a friendly greeting by name on several Y-class flights. That never happened with Star, probably due to the fact that there are so many Star golds.

That said, I find Star to be equally well-managed.
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Old Jul 16, 2014, 10:15 pm
  #62  
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Originally Posted by bmwe92fan
Seems like a solid list - My biggest issue with UA is the current path / trajectory they are on - going down while others seem to be improving, and when I think of how things will look in a few years it makes it hard to continue to "invest" my travel time with UA...
Though it must be noted that UA only has a better long-haul J in terms of being guaranteed a flat seat fleetwide, i.e., hard product, because the soft product cannot compete with AA's.
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Old Jul 16, 2014, 10:45 pm
  #63  
 
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UA
100% PQM on deep discount fares

AA
50% PQM on deep discount fares

that's my biggest holdup. I tend to do a few Intl J trips and get well into Gold territory but would fall short had I flown AA and not UA
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Old Jul 16, 2014, 11:05 pm
  #64  
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Originally Posted by ckidder331
AA
50% PQM on deep discount fares
AA doesn't really have premier qualifying miles (PQM), if that's what you're referring to, and no spending minimum for their elite levels. It's points, miles or segments.

When I first looked at AA back in 2001, I thought I'd have to fly 200K to make EXP there, not knowing the difference between points and miles. Found out you get 50% points on discount economy fares, but 100% miles. I made EXP by flying 100K, just like I made 1K at UA by flying 100K. You can reach the other elite levels there by flying 25K (Gold) or 50K (Platinum). The 50K level comes with 100% bonus miles as does EXP.

Now, if you're going to do a challenge to fast track your AA elite staus, you do need to pay attention to points, as challenges are based on points and not miles. All the AA flyers I know qualify/requalify each year with miles. Anything with an AA flight number accrues 100% miles plus your elite bonuses.
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Old Jul 16, 2014, 11:33 pm
  #65  
 
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I guess the example I'm referring to would look like this

LAX-HKG - lets just say its 7000 miles one way and I buy a J fare
LAX-JFK - lets just say its 2500 miles one way and I buy a deep discount fare

on UA I would earn (7000*2*1.5)+(2500*2*1.0)= 26,000 PQM

on AA I would earn either
(7000*2*1.0)+(2500*2*1.0)= 19,000 EQM (elite miles)
(7000*2*1.5)+(2500*2*.5)= 23,500 EQP (elite points)

for UA - I make UA Silver
For AA - same flights and same classes and same fares, I don't.

This is what would trouble me because I tend to fly a couple J fares and the rest deep discount personal/business fares

Just wondering if any other AA switchers from UA have come across this - it's tricky. If they made their earning like UA, I would fly right on over to AA in a heartbeat.

Originally Posted by tom911
AA doesn't really have premier qualifying miles (PQM), if that's what you're referring to, and no spending minimum for their elite levels. It's points, miles or segments.

When I first looked at AA back in 2001, I thought I'd have to fly 200K to make EXP there, not knowing the difference between points and miles. Found out you get 50% points on discount economy fares, but 100% miles. I made EXP by flying 100K, just like I made 1K at UA by flying 100K. You can reach the other elite levels there by flying 25K (Gold) or 50K (Platinum). The 50K level comes with 100% bonus miles as does EXP.

Now, if you're going to do a challenge to fast track your AA elite staus, you do need to pay attention to points, as challenges are based on points and not miles. All the AA flyers I know qualify/requalify each year with miles. Anything with an AA flight number accrues 100% miles plus your elite bonuses.
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Old Jul 16, 2014, 11:46 pm
  #66  
 
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Originally Posted by 787fan
With UA allowing either ocean, your options are virtually limitless. From SN to LH to OZ to NH to BR .... I've booked/done JFK-ZRH-BKK or HKG-IST-JFK or SIN-ICN-JFK or PVG-ICN-LHR-EWR just to name a few.
UA is making it more and more difficult to book Asia to NA award via Europe. In fact, it is near impossible if it originates from North Asia. South Asia can still get some slacks.
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 12:00 am
  #67  
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Originally Posted by ckidder331
on AA I would earn either
(7000*2*1.0)+(2500*2*1.0)= 19,000 EQM (elite miles)
(7000*2*1.5)+(2500*2*.5)= 23,500 EQP (elite points)
You've identified a weakness in the AA program--you really can't mix and match discounted and premium fare classes if you intend to qualify on points. If you're doing all first and business it works out much better (66,667 miles in business gives you 100,000 points and EXP). Start adding in discount economy that gives you 1/3 the points of business and you can see how long a trek it would be to qualify on points with a combination of the two.

Your AA mileage numbers look good---19,000 miles of flying in any cabin will give you 19,000 EQM. The fact that you're in business or first doesn't factor into the qualification side. I have an SFO-DFW-HKG RT coming up and it's 19,000 miles. (see flyerdude88's post below correcting this section)

AA and UA just don't have identical qualification requirements. Hopefully you'll take a look at some of the other AA benefits, such as first class lounge access on international itineraries and 8 systemwides good on any fare, to see if things balance out for you. If not, stay put. You might also consider an EXP challenge once you reach 1K (I know a Platinum challenge is 10,000 points in 90 days but not sure about the EXP challenge--might be 25,000 points in 90 days---AA will put it all in writing should you reach that point).

Last edited by tom911; Jul 17, 2014 at 12:25 am
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 12:10 am
  #68  
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Originally Posted by ckidder331
UA
100% PQM on deep discount fares

AA
50% PQM on deep discount fares

that's my biggest holdup. I tend to do a few Intl J trips and get well into Gold territory but would fall short had I flown AA and not UA
This isn't true at all. It's 100% PQM on all AA fares. It's 50% *EQPs* but all AA / US flights earn 100% EQMs on every fare class that is sold.

You would have no problem reaching Gold on AA - if you're flying J you get 1.5 *EQPs* on all J fare buckets (excluding upgraded Y fares) and you also get 125% *EQMs* on all J fare buckets (again excluding upgraded Y fares) and 150% *EQMs* on all F fare buckets.

Further you can earn your status on EQMs, EQPs, or Segments, so the fact that you only only 0.5 *EQPs* on some fare buckets is irrelevant if you're due to qualify on miles or segments. EQPs are just an alternate way to reward HVFs that fly 4-5 times a year but are buying J/F fares so they provide 1.5 EQPs so you can achieve elite status from 4- 5 flights a year if you're buying paid F / J every flight.

Your math in the above example is also flawed. If you bought paid J on AA you're getting 125% EQMs (not the 100% you show) and your UA calcuations are also flawed. Your calculations suggest you make 250% on a UA J flight (you show 150% + 100%) but it's really only 150% EQMs and then 100% RDMs which do not count towards elite status and are irrelevant in this comparison.

So a one-way J flight to HKG is actually this (on a hypothetical JFK - HKG flight for both):

UA: 150% * 8072 (EQMs) + 8072 * 175% (RDMs)
AA: 100% * 8072 (EQMs) + 8072 * 125% (RDMs) or 1.5 * 8072 (EQPs) + 8072 * 125% (RDMs)

Last edited by Duke787; Jul 17, 2014 at 12:19 am
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 12:18 am
  #69  
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Originally Posted by gijoe24jp
UA is making it more and more difficult to book Asia to NA award via Europe. In fact, it is near impossible if it originates from North Asia. South Asia can still get some slacks.
Yes. Just spend some time reading recent posts in these threads:

Rules Open Jaw and Stopover Award Flights

Successful Changes to Awards without Incurring Additional Miles

Is My UA Award Itinerary Valid 2014

It is becoming increasingly difficult to book anything beyond a simple a RT itinerary, and the days of US-FRA-BKK-NRT-US are basically done.
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 12:22 am
  #70  
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Originally Posted by flyerdude88
you also get 125% *EQMs* on all J fare buckets (again excluding upgraded Y fares) and 150% *EQMs* on all F fare buckets.=
Well, you can tell I've never flown in paid business. I didn't know that accelerated EQMs-- thought everything was treated equally and you only got the extra bonus miles dropped in your account for class of service. Clearly I'm wrong. Thanks for the correction.
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 2:21 am
  #71  
 
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Originally Posted by tom911
You might also consider an EXP challenge once you reach 1K (I know a Platinum challenge is 10,000 points in 90 days but not sure about the EXP challenge--might be 25,000 points in 90 days---AA will put it all in writing should you reach that point).
yes the current EXP challenge one I just got was 25,000 points in 90 days.

Originally Posted by flyerdude88
Further you can earn your status on EQMs, EQPs, or Segments, so the fact that you only only 0.5 *EQPs* on some fare buckets is irrelevant if you're due to qualify on miles or segments. EQPs are just an alternate way to reward HVFs that fly 4-5 times a year but are buying J/F fares so they provide 1.5 EQPs so you can achieve elite status from 4- 5 flights a year if you're buying paid F / J every flight.
Ah there is the truth about what is bad with the PQD System UA and DL have. They are not rewarding the HVF with a high status level. What is painful is that you are spending their 10k(or more) PQD requirement that you can't waive but they will not give you a 1k status until you fly 100k or 120seg as well. With AA it is one of the three you have to meet not two of the three requirements.
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 4:43 am
  #72  
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Originally Posted by gijoe24jp
UA is making it more and more difficult to book Asia to NA award via Europe. In fact, it is near impossible if it originates from North Asia. South Asia can still get some slacks.
I just booked one this week, no challenge by the reps

Most of that rumor a few weeks back about UA changing routing rules didn't come true
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 8:01 am
  #73  
 
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not sure why i missed that when i was reading the AA program online. just a little confusing with the different options

SO.....

on UA I would earn (7000*2*1.5)+(2500*2*1.0)= 26,000 PQM

on AA I would earn either
(7000*2*1.25)+(2500*2*1.0)= 22,500 EQM (elite miles)
(7000*2*1.5)+(2500*2*.5)= 23,500 EQP (elite points)

for UA - I make UA Silver
For AA - same flights and same classes and same fares, I don't.

I STILL don't quite get there even with the added 25% for a business class tix...this is gonna be interesting. I might take a look at my travel last year to see what I would have been on AA

Originally Posted by tom911
Well, you can tell I've never flown in paid business. I didn't know that accelerated EQMs-- thought everything was treated equally and you only got the extra bonus miles dropped in your account for class of service. Clearly I'm wrong. Thanks for the correction.
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 8:12 am
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Tracer_SEA
Thanks, OP and others

I agree that coming from UA, AA's lack of free SDC for elites is lame. Nearly ubiquitous domestic WiFi OTOH is great.

I'm curious to learn more about this:


Is this just for connecting, international and/or mixed itins with OW partners? Or for domestic/nonstops too?

Thanks in advance
I should have clarified this. I meant international trips. I think the issue is that AA.com does not do a good job searching for partner flights and oneworld partners seems to under-cut each other on pricing.

For example, I booked SMF->LHR for $700 all on AA metal. The same flights on AA.com cost $1100. Why? It is an all metal AA flight, but the inbound legs on my booking are ticketed as BA.
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Old Jul 17, 2014, 8:52 am
  #75  
 
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One thing I've noticed is that as much as I'm not a fan of UA... their planes seem cleaner...
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