IRROPS, United's ongoing fare fraud and why you should complain to the DOT
Apr 11, 2015, 9:43 pm
#256
Join Date: Dec 2011
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All kinds of stuff happens. Time is not the issue. Usually I can get to my destination in a reasonable amount of time.
The main problem is with the fare refund. Paid F costs a lot more than discount Y. Refunds are not automatic, and when they are easy, are often wrong. This discussion could go on for a while. For example, once on the way to JAC I was told that the 1.5 hour segment I had in F (DEN-JAC) was 90% of the airfare, so I would get no refund for flying a 4 hour segment to DEN in Y-. When a refund is fair, it takes time, time, time and frustration to get it. It shouldn't be this way.
This frustration gets in the way of the value proposition. When I get free upgrades on cheap fares more than 50% of the time, why deal with it? It is a valid question.
The main problem is with the fare refund. Paid F costs a lot more than discount Y. Refunds are not automatic, and when they are easy, are often wrong. This discussion could go on for a while. For example, once on the way to JAC I was told that the 1.5 hour segment I had in F (DEN-JAC) was 90% of the airfare, so I would get no refund for flying a 4 hour segment to DEN in Y-. When a refund is fair, it takes time, time, time and frustration to get it. It shouldn't be this way.
This frustration gets in the way of the value proposition. When I get free upgrades on cheap fares more than 50% of the time, why deal with it? It is a valid question.
Apr 11, 2015, 10:34 pm
#257
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Maybe you shouldn't. Only you can answer the value proposition for yourself. Your original question was, "When option 1) costs 2-3x option 2), which would you pick domestically?" I.e., you were asking others what they choose. Their choices may be different than yours because their circumstances may be different from yours. Mine are certainly very different from yours.
Apr 11, 2015, 10:44 pm
#258
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Apr 11, 2015, 10:48 pm
#259
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The net result of difficulties like this are:
1) Buy F - 80% chance of flying in F, 20% of at least one segment in Y and time on the phone for a refund.
2) Buy deep discount Y as an elite - 50% chance of flying in F, 20% chance of exit row/bulkhead/E+ with empty middle seat, 30% chance of ending up in Y- or a less desirable seat.
When option 1) costs 2-3x option 2), which would you pick domestically? The benefits of the F seat/service don't really help. For a high elite this is a hard choice to make.
1) Buy F - 80% chance of flying in F, 20% of at least one segment in Y and time on the phone for a refund.
2) Buy deep discount Y as an elite - 50% chance of flying in F, 20% chance of exit row/bulkhead/E+ with empty middle seat, 30% chance of ending up in Y- or a less desirable seat.
When option 1) costs 2-3x option 2), which would you pick domestically? The benefits of the F seat/service don't really help. For a high elite this is a hard choice to make.
1) Buying F has better than 80% chance.
2) Why can't an elite get a good seat (E+) at purchase? We're assuming early deep discount purchase, right?
3) I don't think the cost differential is 2-3x from Y to -UP. Even if so, what matters to me is $, not %. (E.g. are you more likely to pay $600 rather than $200 to upgrade JFK-LAX, or $1000 rather than $500? The first upgrade costs $400 but triples the fare, the second costs $500 but only doubles it.)
Apr 11, 2015, 10:55 pm
#260
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Personally I hope this is true. The last 6 months, with issues from UAX handling in DEN, snow in the NE and cold in ORD, it has been lower than 80% chance that I flew both segments as booked. I'm hoping the next 6 months is a lot better.
Apr 11, 2015, 11:09 pm
#261
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3) I don't think the cost differential is 2-3x from Y to -UP. Even if so, what matters to me is $, not %. (E.g. are you more likely to pay $600 rather than $200 to upgrade JFK-LAX, or $1000 rather than $500? The first upgrade costs $400 but triples the fare, the second costs $500 but only doubles it.)
Apr 11, 2015, 11:18 pm
#262
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3) I don't think the cost differential is 2-3x from Y to -UP. Even if so, what matters to me is $, not %. (E.g. are you more likely to pay $600 rather than $200 to upgrade JFK-LAX, or $1000 rather than $500? The first upgrade costs $400 but triples the fare, the second costs $500 but only doubles it.)
Apr 11, 2015, 11:37 pm
#263
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Some examples I was just looking at:
IAD-LAX mid may: $337 Y, $835 P
DFW-ORD mid may: $81 Y, $555 P (this Y-N fare is insanely cheap)
SEA-DEN mid may: $274 Y, $455 P
BOS-PHX mid may; $371 Y, $940 A
I really can't find many flights that are less than 2x for F. Most of the flights I want (typical business travel times) are 3x for mid and trans cons.
IAD-LAX mid may: $337 Y, $835 P
DFW-ORD mid may: $81 Y, $555 P (this Y-N fare is insanely cheap)
SEA-DEN mid may: $274 Y, $455 P
BOS-PHX mid may; $371 Y, $940 A
I really can't find many flights that are less than 2x for F. Most of the flights I want (typical business travel times) are 3x for mid and trans cons.
Apr 11, 2015, 11:49 pm
#264
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UA is pricing its business fares primarily for people who can't determine their travel plans five weeks in advance. So if you look at fares five weeks out, the advance-purchase fare is always going to be extremely low relative to business class. If you look a week out (which a lot of business travelers are doing), it's a lot different.