Denied boarding because didn't have Visa for China, though only connecting there.
Jun 17, 14, 7:18 pm
#46
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 959
Originally Posted by spin88
Anticipating every mistake by United exceeds the ability of even the most seasoned traveler. But I am sure that you never get messed over by anyone, because you are perfect, right? Geeze.
And I always try to check everything possible because I was messed before. It doesn't assure I won't have problems, but it helps to minimize them.
Originally Posted by exerda
Wow, can't believe the continual berating of first-time posters for "you should have been prepared" or "you should have known the rules." Hey, UA was 100% in the wrong on this one, with the visa requirements, the law, and everything.
I never wrote UA was right. I just wrote he should have prepared himself better for a "one in a lifetime trip" (his words). For me, it is checking everything possible.
His TA was right, but it seems that his TA just told him the visa wasn't necessary, with no further explanations. When UA told him he needs a visa, he had nothing to argue with UA personnel, he has only "my TA told me I don't need it". And it's why I asked why he didn't use his phone to check online at the counter about the visa requirements. It could help him take the plane.
Jun 17, 14, 7:24 pm
#47
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 8,634
Originally Posted by HMO
It's about me, right?
I never wrote UA was right. I just wrote he should have prepared himself better for a "one in a lifetime trip" (his words). For me, it is checking everything possible.
His TA was right, but it seems that his TA just told him the visa wasn't necessary, with no further explanations. When UA told him he needs a visa, he had nothing to argue with UA personnel, he has only "my TA told me I don't need it". And it's why I asked why he didn't use his phone to check online at the counter about the visa requirements. It could help him take the plane.
I never wrote UA was right. I just wrote he should have prepared himself better for a "one in a lifetime trip" (his words). For me, it is checking everything possible.
His TA was right, but it seems that his TA just told him the visa wasn't necessary, with no further explanations. When UA told him he needs a visa, he had nothing to argue with UA personnel, he has only "my TA told me I don't need it". And it's why I asked why he didn't use his phone to check online at the counter about the visa requirements. It could help him take the plane.
Checking literally "everything possible" is such a silly idea. It would take more than the 330 days that, at the most, lead up to a trip. Should he have checked the daily traffic patterns to the airport on both sides and planned alternative routes? Checked hearing records for local municipal planning authorities to see if there was a remote possibility that a public works project or labor dispute might cause issues during the trip? How about checking the filed flight route for hot-spots of cosmic radiation?
How unbelievably silly. OP possesses exactly 0.000000% of the blame for this.
Jun 17, 14, 7:41 pm
#49
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OP: I am very sorry this happened to you. UA seems to have made a number of mistakes. For most of us here on FT who travel a lot, we forgot that infrequent travellers can be quite lost on international journeys, especially if transiting an unfamiliar airport.
But, that doesn't apply here since they were transiting. Actually, it should be "especially as a business trip" since Chinese visas for business are even more complicated (I lived in China for a number of years and go back once/twice a year now on business).
BTW, OP may be a female (OP says "and my boyfriend"). UA was totally wrong here. The only thing I would have done differently would have been to try to travel to SFO where the UA staff would, most likely, know the rules better. I don't know why UA would not have re-routed on their own flights once they admitted a mistake on their part. Also, BTW, I don't have a smart phone (my old flip phone is furnished by the government - your tax money at work
).
You can stay in certain major Chinese cities without a visa for up to 72 hours when you are IN TRANSIT to a third country. You cannot just visit for 72 hours, even as a business trip.
BTW, OP may be a female (OP says "and my boyfriend"). UA was totally wrong here. The only thing I would have done differently would have been to try to travel to SFO where the UA staff would, most likely, know the rules better. I don't know why UA would not have re-routed on their own flights once they admitted a mistake on their part. Also, BTW, I don't have a smart phone (my old flip phone is furnished by the government - your tax money at work
).
Jun 17, 14, 7:54 pm
#51
Join Date: May 2005
Programs: Million Miler, 1K - Basically spend a lot of time on planes
Posts: 2,195
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
This isn't quite accurate. You can stay in certain major Chinese cities without a visa for up to 72 hours (slightly different for CAN) when you are IN TRANSIT to a third country. You cannot just visit for 72 hours, even as a business trip.
In order to facilitate the international visitors’ short stay for sightseeing in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Chengdu, and Chongqing, these cities adopt a visa-free transit policy in 2013, which allows transit passengers with passport of the following 51 countries to stay for up to 72 hours without visa on direct transit via Beijing Capital International Airport, Shanghai Pudong Airport, Hongqiao Airport, Guangzhou Baiyun Airport, Chengdu Shuangliu Airport and Chongqing Jiangbei International Airport.
From January 1st, 2014, Shenyang and Dalian had also adopted this free transit policy for passengers from following 51 countries traveling via Shenyang Taoxian Internatioanl Airport and Dalian International Airport. Besides, Xian introduced this free transit policy from June 1st, 2014, and passengers can enjoy the same privilege while transiting via Xian Xianyang International Airport.
Jun 17, 14, 7:55 pm
#52
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,657
You are owed a full refund ( if you choose ) of the airfare paid , or a reschedule at a time convenient to you . I would also say you are also owed reasonable damages as a result of UA's actions
But I would go a step further and insist that the employee that denied you boarding be put on reprimand some how and that united put in place some kind of program to retrain employees . We can start with how to use TIMATIC and how to interpret the results . I would settle for no less. This is how to run an international airline 101. Just unbelievable
I am so sick and tired of over zealous UA employees ( mostly exCO) that decide to then recheck people's visa and passport requirements at the gate , after they have been checked at checkin . The check in agent does a very detailed check of your passport and visa then issues you a boarding pass
If you fail this check, you are not given a boarding pass. . On most civilized airlines , Lufthansa and AA for example , the word "DOCS OK" is printed on the boarding pass.
UA has a very haphazard system that is unique to UA. The timatic check happens at check in . The agent has to manually interpret the results , then you are given a boarding pass. Another check happens at the gate , often by a gate agent who is under pressure to board the plane , and done away from the podium. Almost all airlines do this check once , UA checks this twice . The gate employee is supposed to then walk you to the podium, do a TIMATIC check again , and decide whether or not to board you. Of course this depends on whether the employee knows how to do this , and how to read timatic and enter all the fields correctly . This is essentially repeating everything already done at check in.
I sometimes travel with another non us passport , the second check throws UA off, and delays boarding . I am generally someone that can't be pushed over and know my facts , the agent then rechecks my docs again ( for what reason who knows ) and let's me in . Duh - did my docs change somehow between check in and boarding ?
I argue that UA should be responsible mainly due to
1- UA not investing the time and care to train their employees . ( if they did , this would not have happened )
2- UA having poor procedures, in particular the second redundant check . Most airlines will print the word "docs ok" on the bp and visa requirements are checked at check in , once . UA tries to do this twice with poor results and poorly executed. If you are not going to provide the same level of training that a senior check in agent has to a person that boards the flight , you can't expect the person who boards the flight to perform the same function. If the gate agent doing the second redundant check knew the procedures , OP would have boarded the flight . Why do this stupid second check anyway ? Most airlines check this once.
As as result of 1 and 2 UA denied op boarding and ruined the trip .
Be sure to mention UA's lax in training , poor procedures ( that second redundant check ) and uninformed employees .
I would also see if you can lodge an official complaint also with the Chinese authorities. If UA can't properly process air china's flights how can they be trusted ?
UA will kowtow to the Chinese authorities to get the best take off and landing slots, at very prime times ( granted most of these were inherited) . It's about time someone raise a voice.
If UA can't properly handle china flights the slots should be given away to someone else
But I would go a step further and insist that the employee that denied you boarding be put on reprimand some how and that united put in place some kind of program to retrain employees . We can start with how to use TIMATIC and how to interpret the results . I would settle for no less. This is how to run an international airline 101. Just unbelievable
I am so sick and tired of over zealous UA employees ( mostly exCO) that decide to then recheck people's visa and passport requirements at the gate , after they have been checked at checkin . The check in agent does a very detailed check of your passport and visa then issues you a boarding pass
If you fail this check, you are not given a boarding pass. . On most civilized airlines , Lufthansa and AA for example , the word "DOCS OK" is printed on the boarding pass.
UA has a very haphazard system that is unique to UA. The timatic check happens at check in . The agent has to manually interpret the results , then you are given a boarding pass. Another check happens at the gate , often by a gate agent who is under pressure to board the plane , and done away from the podium. Almost all airlines do this check once , UA checks this twice . The gate employee is supposed to then walk you to the podium, do a TIMATIC check again , and decide whether or not to board you. Of course this depends on whether the employee knows how to do this , and how to read timatic and enter all the fields correctly . This is essentially repeating everything already done at check in.
I sometimes travel with another non us passport , the second check throws UA off, and delays boarding . I am generally someone that can't be pushed over and know my facts , the agent then rechecks my docs again ( for what reason who knows ) and let's me in . Duh - did my docs change somehow between check in and boarding ?
I argue that UA should be responsible mainly due to
1- UA not investing the time and care to train their employees . ( if they did , this would not have happened )
2- UA having poor procedures, in particular the second redundant check . Most airlines will print the word "docs ok" on the bp and visa requirements are checked at check in , once . UA tries to do this twice with poor results and poorly executed. If you are not going to provide the same level of training that a senior check in agent has to a person that boards the flight , you can't expect the person who boards the flight to perform the same function. If the gate agent doing the second redundant check knew the procedures , OP would have boarded the flight . Why do this stupid second check anyway ? Most airlines check this once.
As as result of 1 and 2 UA denied op boarding and ruined the trip .
Be sure to mention UA's lax in training , poor procedures ( that second redundant check ) and uninformed employees .
I would also see if you can lodge an official complaint also with the Chinese authorities. If UA can't properly process air china's flights how can they be trusted ?
UA will kowtow to the Chinese authorities to get the best take off and landing slots, at very prime times ( granted most of these were inherited) . It's about time someone raise a voice.
If UA can't properly handle china flights the slots should be given away to someone else
Jun 17, 14, 8:06 pm
#53
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If OP spends his time complaining about UA's procedures and demanding discipline of the counter agent, this all becomes a big "we're so sorry" note from UA.
OP actually lost something here and if OP wants to be made whole, the way to do that is to focus on OP's situation, not on non-expert snark which never gets anywhere.
I also agree that threatening a lawsuit is a terrible idea. If OP is going to sue, then sue. People who threaten don't.
OP actually lost something here and if OP wants to be made whole, the way to do that is to focus on OP's situation, not on non-expert snark which never gets anywhere.
I also agree that threatening a lawsuit is a terrible idea. If OP is going to sue, then sue. People who threaten don't.
Jun 17, 14, 8:12 pm
#55
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While everybody jumps on UA (rightly so) I'd also tell the OP to smack his travel agent around. Why that kind of routing? You can fly through Taipei and connect to a Cebu Direct flight. Or you can go through Hawaii. Or Hong Kong. Seems like an odd choice of routing.
Jun 17, 14, 8:13 pm
#56
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Originally Posted by HMO
His TA was right, but it seems that his TA just told him the visa wasn't necessary, with no further explanations. When UA told him he needs a visa, he had nothing to argue with UA personnel, he has only "my TA told me I don't need it". And it's why I asked why he didn't use his phone to check online at the counter about the visa requirements. It could help him take the plane.
The OP's TA was 100% correct. The OP did not need a visa, full stop. Everything else was UA's fault.
Originally Posted by FoxFlyer
But it was scary to see that the agents really may have no way to override the system in a case like the OPs... if the computer says you need it, they can't check you in (even if you are just transiting or on a 24-72 hour layover).
Jun 17, 14, 8:18 pm
#57
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Originally Posted by relangford
OP: I am very sorry this happened to you. UA seems to have made a number of mistakes. For most of us here on FT who travel a lot, we forgot that infrequent travellers can be quite lost on international journeys, especially if transiting an unfamiliar airport.But, that doesn't apply here since they were transiting. Actually, it should be "especially as a business trip" since Chinese visas for business are even more complicated (I lived in China for a number of years and go back once/twice a year now on business).
BTW, OP may be a female (OP says "and my boyfriend"). UA was totally wrong here. The only thing I would have done differently would have been to try to travel to SFO where the UA staff would, most likely, know the rules better. I don't know why UA would not have re-routed on their own flights once they admitted a mistake on their part. Also, BTW, I don't have a smart phone (my old flip phone is furnished by the government - your tax money at work ).
BTW, OP may be a female (OP says "and my boyfriend"). UA was totally wrong here. The only thing I would have done differently would have been to try to travel to SFO where the UA staff would, most likely, know the rules better. I don't know why UA would not have re-routed on their own flights once they admitted a mistake on their part. Also, BTW, I don't have a smart phone (my old flip phone is furnished by the government - your tax money at work
).
Jun 17, 14, 8:20 pm
#58
Join Date: May 2005
Location: WARR
Programs: QR Platinum, UA Gold, GA Silver
Posts: 251
Based on my experience, this may due to the fact that in *A mixed-carrier reservation, only one other carrier flight (the connecting flight) is listed in the other carrier record. For example, when I flew ORD-FRA-ICN(LH)-TPE(OZ)-SUB(BR) on a 016 award ticket, the LH record only contain flights up to TPE which I need a visa to enter. After learning that my final destination is Indonesia, the LH check-in agent in ORD still could not check me in without a supervisor override, because the "final" destination in LH record is TPE.
It is possible that in this case, the last segment shown in their UA records is the CA segment to PEK. However, I am amazed at the UA agents' refusal to think and further help their passengers. They do need more training!
It is possible that in this case, the last segment shown in their UA records is the CA segment to PEK. However, I am amazed at the UA agents' refusal to think and further help their passengers. They do need more training!
Last edited by andryas; Jun 17, 14 at 8:24 pm Reason: accuracy
Jun 17, 14, 8:21 pm
#59
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Originally Posted by CO_Nonrev_elite
Who's going to have a 72hr layover where you can't leave the airport ? (well other than when UA strands you there after canceling the flight for 3 days in a row..., here's the actual situation:
In order to facilitate the international visitors’ short stay for sightseeing in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Chengdu, and Chongqing, these cities adopt a visa-free transit policy in 2013, which allows transit passengers with passport of the following 51 countries to stay for up to 72 hours without visa on direct transit via Beijing Capital International Airport, Shanghai Pudong Airport, Hongqiao Airport, Guangzhou Baiyun Airport, Chengdu Shuangliu Airport and Chongqing Jiangbei International Airport.
From January 1st, 2014, Shenyang and Dalian had also adopted this free transit policy for passengers from following 51 countries traveling via Shenyang Taoxian Internatioanl Airport and Dalian International Airport. Besides, Xian introduced this free transit policy from June 1st, 2014, and passengers can enjoy the same privilege while transiting via Xian Xianyang International Airport.
In order to facilitate the international visitors’ short stay for sightseeing in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Chengdu, and Chongqing, these cities adopt a visa-free transit policy in 2013, which allows transit passengers with passport of the following 51 countries to stay for up to 72 hours without visa on direct transit via Beijing Capital International Airport, Shanghai Pudong Airport, Hongqiao Airport, Guangzhou Baiyun Airport, Chengdu Shuangliu Airport and Chongqing Jiangbei International Airport.
From January 1st, 2014, Shenyang and Dalian had also adopted this free transit policy for passengers from following 51 countries traveling via Shenyang Taoxian Internatioanl Airport and Dalian International Airport. Besides, Xian introduced this free transit policy from June 1st, 2014, and passengers can enjoy the same privilege while transiting via Xian Xianyang International Airport.
Jun 17, 14, 8:26 pm
#60
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Here is the link to UAL.com website detailing Visa requirements that I have bookmarked on my cell phone for just this type of an encounter with a clueless UA agent.
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...aspx?i=TIMATIC
Basically, this is a form where you input City of Origin, City of Transit and City of Destination with arrival date and time information. The form returns your requirements. I believe it is linked to TIMATIC.
Just tried the link and the page now is blank. Great
Guess I now need an outside TIMATIC link.
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...aspx?i=TIMATIC
Basically, this is a form where you input City of Origin, City of Transit and City of Destination with arrival date and time information. The form returns your requirements. I believe it is linked to TIMATIC.
Just tried the link and the page now is blank. Great
Guess I now need an outside TIMATIC link.
