Flight cancelled b/c crew couldn't get through U.S. Customs
May 30, 2014, 10:31 am
#17
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I was told by three UA GA's this week that my delayed intl departure would not hinder me making my connection XXX-IAH-DEN, even though the DEN connection was due to leave 20 minutes after I landed in IAH. They told me it is United policy to hold intl connections IF more than 10 people are connecting and would miss the DEN flight. I was told emphatically that this was policy and I would be safe and they would not protect me on the next flight as it wasn't necessary. Anyway, you know what happened. I went from an F seat IAH-DEN to a middle seat in E- on the next available flight from IAH-DEN, even though the plane was still on the ground due to a mx issue when I got to the gate because my seat had been given away because "you were ever going to make the original departure time". I emailed 1k on Tuesday. Crickets since.
May 30, 2014, 10:32 am
#18
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I think the salient "fact" is that Customs was open, the GA claimed it wasn't, and a whole planeload of customers got a night in a Ramada for some other, unrevealed reason. Which is by any measure despicable.
Why do United employees lie to customers so readily? Do they really think it won't catch up with them? The company already has a big enough trust problem.
Why do United employees lie to customers so readily? Do they really think it won't catch up with them? The company already has a big enough trust problem.
- Flight crew hasn't arrived at the gate
- GA calls somebody to find where they are, finds that they were trying to get through customs
- GA is aware that immigration regularly closes at 2100, and/or is told that this is a consideration
- Flight crew doesn't make it through customs, either due to arriving late, unable to locate after-hours staff, close to hours timeout because of delay so just turned back, or some combination of all of these
- GA tells pax that immigration closes at 2100 and doesn't believe the crew made it through
Where's the lie? Disorganisation, sure. Lack of clear communication, sure. Incompetence, possibly. But lying? That's a stretch, to say the least. But interestingly, that's what you gravitate towards to immediately.
May 30, 2014, 10:39 am
#19
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crew must have timed out, that is the only reasonable explanation. CBP does not simply walk away leaving people to be processed. Its a lie, and a really stupid one.
File a DOT complaint, explain the situation... its easily done via the web. Link is here: http://www.dot.gov/airconsumer/file-consumer-complaint
File a DOT complaint, explain the situation... its easily done via the web. Link is here: http://www.dot.gov/airconsumer/file-consumer-complaint
Something delays the crew. They time out and a replacement crew is called--and the replacement crew runs into customs being closed.
May 30, 2014, 10:52 am
#20
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Yup, you bet. Preponderance of evidence. And in a general way, casual lying to customers is a big problem in airline culture and at United in particular, with a staff that is boxed in by circumstance and forced to defend the indefensible.
May 30, 2014, 10:54 am
#21
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May 30, 2014, 10:58 am
#22
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Perhaps, but I seriously doubt that United has any extra pilots on hand in Toronto who would be legal to fly to Newark late in the evening. The only UA pilots sitting in Toronto would likely be those who are spending the night there because they have already flown their full schedule that day. They would be in their hotels getting their federally-required minimum rest so they can fly early morning departures from YYZ.
May 30, 2014, 11:06 am
#23
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On Wednesday I was scheduled to take UA 4649 from YYZ-EWR, departing at 7:30pm. It was first delayed to 8:45 because the plane was late getting in; and then the delays kept coming. 9:10, 9:40, 10:20, 10:40. The plane had arrived, but the reason given for each of these subsequent delays was that the flight crew was having difficulty getting through U.S. Customs. Finally, at about 11pm, we were told the flight had been cancelled because the crew was never able to get through, and that the U.S. Customs line had "closed at 9:00."
Oh, you can imagine how that announcement went over at that point.
After the swearing and shouting ceased (with the gate supervisor arguing back with some of the more irascible passengers over the PA system! Everyone was just toast at that point including the staff), we all went back through Canada Customs, got hotel/meal vouchers, and were rebooked for morning flights.
The next morning as I went through U.S. Customs to my rebooked flight, I asked an agent whether they had in fact closed at 9:00 the previous night, and he laughed, shook his head, and said something to the effect of "we don't close." Which of course, if true, raises the question of whether United misrepresented the reasons for the delay and cancellation, and what other reason they would have been covering for.
One thing none of us got was a compensatory voucher. I guess I had thought that there was something akin to IDB vouchers to be given out if a flight gets cancelled for operational reasons and you don't get to your destination for several hours (11 hours in my case). What have people's experiences been in this kind of situation?
Oh, you can imagine how that announcement went over at that point.
After the swearing and shouting ceased (with the gate supervisor arguing back with some of the more irascible passengers over the PA system! Everyone was just toast at that point including the staff), we all went back through Canada Customs, got hotel/meal vouchers, and were rebooked for morning flights.
The next morning as I went through U.S. Customs to my rebooked flight, I asked an agent whether they had in fact closed at 9:00 the previous night, and he laughed, shook his head, and said something to the effect of "we don't close." Which of course, if true, raises the question of whether United misrepresented the reasons for the delay and cancellation, and what other reason they would have been covering for.
One thing none of us got was a compensatory voucher. I guess I had thought that there was something akin to IDB vouchers to be given out if a flight gets cancelled for operational reasons and you don't get to your destination for several hours (11 hours in my case). What have people's experiences been in this kind of situation?
Don't forget "air traffic control" being blamed for delays when other airlines are flying normally.
Earlier this week, our pilot (on a UA flight) told us we were delaying our departure to allow for passengers to connect to our flight. United.com blamed ATC for our delay.
Earlier this week, our pilot (on a UA flight) told us we were delaying our departure to allow for passengers to connect to our flight. United.com blamed ATC for our delay.
Last edited by mduell; May 30, 2014 at 11:12 am
May 30, 2014, 11:32 am
#24
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Don't forget "air traffic control" being blamed for delays when other airlines are flying normally.
Earlier this week, our pilot (on a UA flight) told us we were delaying our departure to allow for passengers to connect to our flight. United.com blamed ATC for our delay.
Earlier this week, our pilot (on a UA flight) told us we were delaying our departure to allow for passengers to connect to our flight. United.com blamed ATC for our delay.
So tbe delay was a FAA flow control problem, but during that time, we arranged to make some connecting passengers. Does that make both the FAA website showing ground holds as well as UA liars because the decision was made to make the most of the situation?
May 30, 2014, 11:46 am
#26
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There are rules about how many consecutive hours a flight crew can work. The FAA has a set and then the Union contracts also have limits in place. If there are delays to a flight then it is possible that the crew no longer has enough hours available to complete the trip. At that point either an alternate crew is found or the flight is cancelled.
Originally Posted by bob_the_d
noob question here, what does it mean when you're all saying a crew "times out?"
May 30, 2014, 12:34 pm
#27
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I think the salient "fact" is that Customs was open, the GA claimed it wasn't, and a whole planeload of customers got a night in a Ramada for some other, unrevealed reason. Which is by any measure despicable.
Why do United employees lie to customers so readily? Do they really think it won't catch up with them? The company already has a big enough trust problem.
Why do United employees lie to customers so readily? Do they really think it won't catch up with them? The company already has a big enough trust problem.
May 30, 2014, 12:43 pm
#28
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Yes - this happened at my home airport which switched to contractors after eliminating all of the former employees. It was a rough go for the first few months but is getting better now - a lot of these people have to relearn everything (many came from AA) and can sometimes misinterpret information given to them - especially now that crew rest regulations have changed as well...
May 30, 2014, 1:20 pm
#29
Join Date: Aug 2013
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Flight cancelled b/c crew couldn't get through U.S. Customs
Can confirm US customs closes at 9PM, and they are very adamant about it. Only exceptions I've seen is when AC had a delayed flight in from China with 60+ school kids off for a trip to the US via YYZ. Saw this happen twice, I guess they make it worth their while.
May 30, 2014, 1:32 pm
#30
Join Date: Mar 2007
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I was on 4649 earlier this month on a Sunday night. Left for the airport with no delays showing, arrived 45 minutes later with 2 hours showing. Heard every excuse in the world, finally left 5+ hours late. During most of the time there was no one around to answer questions. United.com said one thing, phone calls said another--via automated, it was over an hour of wait time for a real person and the airport departure board showed a third thing. In the end, after 3 or 4 gate changes we finally left with our driver telling us that the delay was due to "runway construction in Newark". I was shocked the next morning to get an email offering me the choice of $150TC, 7,000 MP Miles or 20% off of a future flight. Any way you cut it, it was a bad night, filled with lies and mis-information. None of did any thing good because it started with a lot of lies by United about 4649, maybe it is that flight number??