halls120

It beats the h3ll out of sitting in Y. I can sleep quite nicely sitting in an inside IPTE seat. No so well in Y.

zkzkz

Uh, by "recent" you mean 11 years? Virgin introduced them in 2003. Air New Zealand copied them in 2004 and Air Canada in 2006. I'm not sure about SWISS and US but you can hardly argue it's a new thing. There are always going to be laggards but you don't get far by measuring yourself against the worst of your peers.

And UA's new business class isn't an aging product. It was just introduced in the last couple years and still isn't even completely rolled out. They consciously chose to go with a non-suite style when that was the state of the art. One can only imagine to try to retain any value for their "first class" product which is basically comparable to most international business class products.

goodeats21

I compare it to the jewelry stores at this point. I have to imagine it is priced at $9,000 so they can offer their corporate contracts a whopper of a discount.

(Everything now 50% off !!!)

In more seriousness, I am sure there is a premium for being the only non-stop available to EWR. If you can fly into JFK, the price will drop SIGNIFICANTLY.

UA-NYC

CO had their seat flying in 2009, as did UA. It is "completely rolled out", not sure why you think otherwise?

As of now, IMO they are both average seats. In 5 years, when they are still delivering planes with the CO seat, it will be below average.

halls120

Exactly. Why they didn't take the opportunity to introduce a modern product on the 787 shows just how poor their strategic vision is - assuming they even have one.

zkzkz

Well the topic under discussion this time was the "all-aisle access". I admit it sounds a lot like eternal the "lie-flat" discussions though. CO is not all-aisle access.

When CO rolled out in 2010 it was good (despite *not* having all aisle access), and now it's average. When UA began rolling out in 2012 it was only average then.

I didn't realize they had completed the roll-out. When I last flew UA business it was about a year ago and people were still having to check a wiki to figure out which plane had it and which didn't.

CO_Nonrev_elite

There are no pilot rest seats on the 757 from Scotland. Flight is under 8hrs so all 16 avail. Yes it's the last 1-2 seats, but still an amazingly high price

Often1

UA does use targeted freebies for it's higher-end customers, e.g. GPU's. That gives the pax a taste of the good life in the hope that the same pax will pay the premium to sit upfront the next time.

Simply handing out freebies is a way to turn international premium into what domestic F has become. Less and less product differentiation and fewer people who would pay for the product willing to do so because they think that they will get it for free.

UA has eliminated the CPU on p.s. routes (JFK-LAX/SFO) and DL has done so for the same routes + SEA. All in return for an improved product.

UA-NYC

The VX/AC seats you speak of, while all-aisle access, were called "coffins" for a reason...there were a lot of downsides to that style of seat (though all aisle was the key benefit).

UA announced their seat in 2007, and it actually launched (IIRC) a year ahed of CO's seat.

http://new.pentagram.com/2008/04/uni...ins-cond-nast/

They actually were award winning.

There were a few 777s that weren't yet re-configred - but the other ~80 int'l widebodies all were

1. This completely ignores the fact that DL and AA also offer such "freebies" as you call them (which are actually rewards for doing 100K+ miles
2. DL and AA are also improving their front cabin while still offering such awards; it's UA that's taking a step back.
3. DL and AA also seem to be increasing their yields while making improvements (the opposite of UA).
4. Draw your own conclusions.

Hadrian35

100% agree. I'll suffer for 10hrs rather than give them a dime for the roulette of fair to crappy service you get from UA.

Maybe I would consider it if buy up $ went to PQD... but it doesn't so it's not anything I'd ever consider.

lalalandMCI

No, what we are saying is that if people are upgraded for free all the time, they won't pay for J or Intl F. When people won't pay for intl J or F, F goes away. When people don't pay for J, the service standards are cut for everyone because they aren't making money on those seats that they give away for free and offer 4 course meals.

demkr

Wish I had that problem. My BF cabin is 80% full for SFO-LHR in less than 2 weeks. I've been waitlisted for over six months.

I swear to God, if this flight doesn't upgrade, UA isn't getting another dime. I'm so tired of it.

euslaner

Last Monday night UA 932 (IAD-FRA) was < 40% full--likely because of the expected 18" of snow (that turned out to be closer to 3"). I didn't expect to make the flight, but didn't cancel. Others may have done so. Y seemed to be about 15% full. I think that a couple of folks were upgraded to C, but not enough to fill the cabin. I was in the middle of row 7, on the aisle, with two empty seats next to me. But this was the exception rather than the rule. On the way back on Sunday C was full.

Kacee

Feel your pain . . . when this happens to me I just KNOW they have been skipping me on the waitlist.

Always Flyin

When my GPU on a "B" fare from EWR to LHR didn't clear, that's when I threw in the towel.