sammyindc

I think the best way to handle it would be to UA to have people request kosher wine with their kosher meal or automatically include it.
It's impossible for them to handle every passenger's dietary restrictions while on board but they could get it as they do with the meals. I don't know if the kosher meals are prepared in house or catered by a third party. If catered then the stocking cost would/issue would not arise.

halls120

UA seems intent in becoming the lowest quality international airline around.

AVIZ

I'm not really sure what the added logistics are. There are hundreds of SKU's that get loaded on each flight - is RDKSHRWN really going to make things that much harder? I have the cost at under $60k a year based on 740 flights. In reality it's probably closer to $40k (at least 3 flights a week see no Orthodox pax, 20 per flight is being generous, they could be paying $3 a bottle)

20 bottles per flight @ $4
740 flights ann.

$58,400

What strikes me here is not the insensitivity but rather the poor research on UA's part. This was probably some low level purchasing person who was charged with cutting X dollars and didn't have any reason to consider that a measly 10 paid BF passengers over one year would cover this entire cost. It's clear for whatever reason they have that UA is not interested in expanding their reach in to the Orthodox market; the irony is that if they put money into their kosher food and beverage, they would actually have a decent shot at taking some real business from El Al.

sammyindc

All the UA flights to TLV from EWR are always full and very hard to upgrade. If UA were to add more flights from ORD they would also be pretty full. I don't think UA sees El Al as competition and I highly doubt the removal of kosher wines is going to change any of that.

trk1

Big deal,

I don't drink wine so what do I care. Would prefer to have a good flight.

This blog is getting out of hand with petty items.

I love ICE TEA. United does not have it. I still am a 3 mm 1k and will live.

iquitos

procedure for TLV they have for no other flight anywhere but they can't carry "special" wine due to cost? Their problem is they have no imagination. i advocate they start going up and down the aisle with a big jar of Costco mayo, some loaves of wonder bread and some sliced baloney with which they could put together sandwiches for $2.99 each. They could add a jug of Mogen David for the TLV flight and pass out plastic cups as you board.

saccoNY

To me, this is the root of the issue. This is a flight to the Jewish homeland, Israel. Not London, Papettee, Tokyo, etc.... UA runs 2 flights a day to/from TLV. I have observed taking this flight many visibly orthodox people and people, like myself, very secular looking (though eat kosher) requesting kosher wines. Even if there isn't much demand for kosher wines (which I doubt) why would you even take the risk to alienate a customer base who fills seats on a very profitable route for UA? To pay $5-$8k (or even upgrade) for a BF seat and not be able to have wine with my kosher meal is to me just insensitive. As are some of the comments in this forum about one's ability to ingest not kosher food for one who keeps kosher...such as this....


If you CHOOSE to be kosher, or anything for that matter, it is a very personal decision. It's not up to the OP or UA to pass judgement why or what the consequences of eating non kosher would be for someone who chooses to. If UA CHOOSES not to be sensitive to it's customer base who constantly fills airplanes on a very profitable route, we can CHOOSE not to fly UA and take one of their competitors who will be more sensitive to our needs. It's a shame to me as a long time UA (former CO) customer, who has typically gone out of their way to fly CO/UA.

Very shortsighted by UA! Those mini bottles probably wholesale for $5 or less. Yes, it probably was some low level employee trying to apply cost cutting, and being totally insensitive of any other issue (typical, old school corporate America) However, the cost of UA being perceived as intensive to the Jewish community or beyond and potential loss of business or just ill feelings towards UA can make the $5 mini bottle look pretty inexpensive in comparison. Hopefully someone higher up will come to their senses.

Will this for sure push me to DL, LY and US? I can't say yes it would, just for wine....but I will think twice before plopping down $7k with UA for a BF seat. And more importantly it really leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth...worse than the cheap Kosher wine ever could have.

Hadrian35

Unless this is insulting to Palestinians or others that call Israel their home, just serve all kosher winne on the flight. I'm not Jewish/Kosher and I don't care if the flight only has Kosher wines. You are catering to a special market and I understand. I'll drink Mogen David... i'm going to Israel and I can do as they do.

craz

1- the kosher wine was available only in BF not Y. 2- Im sure that as I noticed few if anyone else asked for or consumed any, so if the wine wasnt being drunk I can understand it being pulled to my dismay.

Im sure its that way with anything if when they look over the paper work they see some item isnt selling or being used it will be yanked. If the kosher wine loaded was all used up or close to it, then it wouldnt have been pulled

entropy

And some Orthodox do not eat broccoli or asparagus, there are all sorts of stringencies that have been added on in the last few decades. My in-laws (who are Orthodox) will not do Kiddush on a non-Kosher wine, but (despite the availability of plenty of great Kosher Israeli wines), *most* of the best stuff (Margalit, Sea Horse, Pelter) isn't stamped. And they'll drink non-(K) Israeli wines.

But all that is irrelevant, because there are plenty of people who restrict themselves to sealed, Kosher only. CO used to expend considerable effort on the quality of the Kosher experience to/from TLV. They used to care about the product and the people they are serving, today, not so much. Avi Friedman is the director of UA's middle east operations, I suggest that someone get in touch with him.

northpole999

I don't think it's "a level of concern for in-flight wine". It's the fact that those who keep kosher cannot drink any other wine. Thus not having kosher wine on the fight is the same as not having any wine on the flight.

While it does not affect me, I have to say that I would not be interested in paying a business class fare to fly an airline which effectively does not serve wine for my intents and purposes while its competitors do serve wine I could drink, unless the other factors (quality of product, price etc.) were significantly superior on UA (which I do not believe is the case).

ctownflyer

That's pretty ignorant, kosher wines available today can more than hold their own.

Not comparable at all. As long as the fruits and veggies are clean (not buggy) then most Orthodox jews will eat them. Yes there are endless stringencies within Orthodox judaism, but I have yet to meet an Orthodox jew that drinks non-kosher certified wine.

Also untrue. Go into Trader Joes and you can get a drinkable kosher Cab for $5. Not going to compare to a great $15 bottle, but much better than the sweet swill they were serving.

I think that's the crux of the problem, the stuff they were serving was gag-worthy and therefore even those that knew it was an option probably didn't want it.

LaserSailor

EWR-TLV flights are full of WASPs like me IMHE. I'm guessing few of them are kosher. I'm guessing UA can get a better sense of the demographic than I can.

ctownflyer

And I'm guessing they're clueless and would risk losing full J pax to AA, AC, DL, LY, US over a $5 bottle of wine.
Welcome to Jeffcuts Airlines.

EWR764

I think the salient issue is that, at a time where competitors are adding features and amenities to improve the value proposition of their respective products, United continues to cut every aspect of the experience that arguably rises above a minimally-acceptable standard for international travel.

It's not even a UA vs. CO thing, as the pre-merger CO BusinessFirst product had a number of special 'extras' that demonstrated a level of care and awareness of customer preferences in certain markets. Right now, as a result of neverending cost cuts, the product is mostly generic across the system and undoubtedly less than the sum of its pre-merger parts. We have more flat bed seats than ever, but while DL continues to innovate, with new dining options and passenger amenities, UA is becoming the very embodiment of complacency. Eventually, "good enough" no longer is.